6 ms·
With that logic all taxes and social policies are theft.
by anonfunction 10y ago
With that logic all taxes and social policies are theft.
- jakeogh 10y agoCorrect. Personal taxes (taking things via threat of force) are theft. It does not matter who is doing the taking.
- EliRivers 10y agoYou have redefined the English language for your own propaganda purposes. This significantly degrades any chance of you being taken seriously.
- vostok 10y agoIt's not necessarily for propaganda purposes, but I agree that this is a highly nonstandard terminology and it's not obvious to me that it improves anyone's ability to communicate.
- raintrees 10y agoThank you. If my seizing my neighbor's extra car because I do not have one is theft, it is still theft if I convince a majority to pass a law take it for me. And it is enforced with the threat of (or actual) violence against my neighbor, if my neighbor refuses.
- EliRivers 10y agoNegative. Theft is a crime. Crime is defined by the criminal law. If you choose to have your own personal criminal law, so that you can call whatever you like theft, that's up to you, but if you're going to do that with language, you can claim anything is anything.
- raintrees 10y agoOkay, we disagree. (*edit: we disagree about taxes being theft). But that is what I enjoy about communicating with other intelligent people, we can discuss ideas and not have to agree. I have been studying this in my free time for the last decade or so, and do not have a ready list of sources handy, but here are a few I gathered in the last 30 minutes, should you be curious as to why I think this way: https://mises.org/library/taxation-robbery https://mises.org/library/taxation-robbery https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_as_theft https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_as_theft A very short list of sites containing general backgrounders: https://mises.org/ https://mises.org/ http://www.ronpaulcurriculum.com/ http://www.ronpaulcurriculum.com/ http://tomwoods.com/ http://tomwoods.com/ https://www.freemansperspective.com/ https://www.freemansperspective.com/ A short list of sources on this direction of thinking to start with: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludwig_von_Mises https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hayek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Hayek https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murray_Rothbard Much of this is intertwined in Libertarianism, Austrian Economics, and even Minarchy/Anarchy. I obey the laws of the jurisdiction that I reside in, but that does not mean that I am not trying to actively change those laws for what I perceive as "the better"... I search for as close an approximation to "the best way" as I can, understanding that humans are fallible by nature. For entertainment, I am re-reading the book A Lodging of Wayfaring Men, a fictional book by Paul Rosenberg. While it is in severe need of editing (self-published?) I find it entertaining enough to re-read to get excited/stimulated about the possibilities of correcting systems that I consider to be operating very inefficiently, or flat out wrong.
- briantakita 10y agoTheft is a crime committed by another citizen. Redistribution of wealth is a "social program" committed by the State. See, with language, you can justify anything. One can make anything legal or illegal. It all depends on which Entity is saying those words. That's the nature of political power... "A traitor is everyone who does not agree with me." ---George III of the United Kingdom
- prodmerc 10y agoWell, you can always stop using roads, hospitals, sidewalks, subsidized foods and fuel. Then you can call the tax man a thief and shoot him. Unless you're rich, taxation benefits you, you brainwashed idiot.
- dasil003 10y agoYou would not have been in a position to earn any of the money you have without public infrastructure paid for by taxes. Maybe you would have been successful under an anarchy, but I doubt that is the case for the majority of HN'ers, and my best guess is that your ideological position would crumble pretty quickly if you were forced to live in the world which you ostensibly desire. Fortunately for everyone I can't see that happening without massive death and destruction.
- jakeogh 10y agoI'm not advocating Anarchy. That's never going to work. We need laws, and I would love to change the laws regarding the income tax.
- frio 10y agoWho enforces the law? How does their labour get paid for?
- jakeogh 10y agoWhy would you think a tax on personal income is the only way to do that?
- frio 10y agoI didn't say it was :). What alternative do you propose?
- jakeogh 10y agoNumerous states haven't had a problem with it even though they have no personal income tax. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/03/23/states-income-tax/2002991/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/03/...
- 10y ago
- prodmerc 10y agoGlad you are and always will be a millionaire who doesn't use any public services and will never need to worry about hospital bills, housing or food. Otherwise you're an idiot.
- jakeogh 10y agoYou know we had hospitals, housing assistance and food assistance before the personal income tax right? A personal income tax is just one way we fund gov services, there are plenty of other options that don't require a gun to the head. Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming have no state level personal income tax.
- woofyman 10y agoAlaska and Texas have oil. Florida has tourists. Wyoming has coal.
- TheCoelacanth 10y agoYou say taxation is theft. Anarchists say that the fact that you have any property that can be taxed is theft. This is a matter of opinion, not an indisputable fact.