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Actually, we probably do want to care about that. We know Earth's environment is changing but be don't really know why. Our planet is a single data point in t

Actually, we probably do want to care about that. We know Earth's environment is changing but be don't really know why. Our planet is a single data point in the solar system, which makes analysis a little difficult. Is Mars getting warmer or colder? Is Jupiter? Why is Jupiter's atmosphere visibly changing? If all other planets in the solar system are getting warmer/colder, shouldn't we expect Earth's temperature to change as well? It's like a bright neon sign flashing "Clearly Explained Reason for Increased Solar System Exploration", but the space agency budget folks will likely ignore it and attempt to gain public support through some asinine vision quest thing instead.

Retric 16y ago
I agree that sending probes thought the solar system is interesting, but other planets are not worming. PS: This is the second time the band has disappeared discovering why that happens may be interesting like the North pole hexagon cloud pattern over Saturn but it's probably not a temperature effect: http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060519/full/news060515-17.html http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060519/full/news060515-17.ht...
- tom_rath 16y ago
  Do we have sufficient data to conclude that other planets are not warming? How far back does our accurate, consistent measurement go? Years? A decade or two? I'm not sure we have sufficient data to conclude anything right now. We know astoundingly little about the neighbourhood we live in.
  - mrkurt 16y ago
    I don't want to sound like too much of a jackass here, but do you have any reason to think that other planets are warming? The rhetorical technique of "pose a question without any real backing, then demand proof when someone answers" drives me nuts.
    - tom_rath 16y ago
      Yes. For one, there's that big ol' fusion furnace in the middle of the place that's tossing out a variable amount of energy as time goes on. Examining the weather of other planets would help explain if solar activity or other factors are affecting planetary temperatures more than recent human actions.
      - demallien 16y ago
        The sun isn't responsible for global warming. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7327393.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7327393.stm
        tom_rath 16y ago
        Please don't bring that politicized stuff into the discussion. That's a different flame war entirely. If Jupiter is warming/cooling or Mars is warming/cooling, then something has to be responsible for it, and it sure isn't human activity. If not the sun, then what? Something about planetary environments we're likely interested in learning more about, right?
        demallien 16y ago
        You don't get to just label contrary scientific findings as 'political', and dismiss it out of hand. Here's the published paper that the article refers to: http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/3/2/024001/ http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/3/2/024001/ The correlations don't hold up under analysis, and that's really all there is to be said on the subject. But if you feel that you can refute that paper with evidence, then go for it. I for one would love for you to be right, It's no doubt save me (and everyone else on the planet) a whole load of economic pain. Sadly, reality does't seem to be going along with my desires.
        tom_rath 16y ago
        I didn't dismiss/refute/claim anything or intend to start yet another global warming flame war. I'm probably as familiar with that research as you are and I'm not refuting it. If other planets are warming/cooling then something is responsible for it. If it's not the sun, then it's something else related to planetary environments with which we are not familiar. Studying that would be A Good Idea, regardless of where people stand on global warming, because examining Earth alone just gives us a single data point. What's happening on Mars? Does it parallel the changes we're seeing on Earth to some degree? What's happening in Jupiter's atmosphere to bring about such a dramatic change in a short period of time? Could we see a similar dramatic change on this planet?
  - Retric 16y ago
    Do we have sufficient data to conclude that other planets are not warming? Yes. The theory that the sun is causing global worming fails on several levels and there is zero evidence from the data we have that global the sun is causing global warming. PS: Presenting a theory with zero support and then requesting more evidence from theory’s that have support is not rational behavior. You can request all the evidence you want but at the end of the day whichever theory has the MOST evidence is more likely to be correct.
lutorm 16y ago
Jupiter's atmosphere is really complex, probably more so than the Earth's due to its internal heat, high spin rate and lack of surface. I'm not sure we should look there for clues about the changes in the Sun. Probably much easier to just measure the solar output.

Retric 16y ago

I agree that sending probes thought the solar system is interesting, but other planets are not worming. PS: This is the second time the band has disappeared discovering why that happens may be interesting like the North pole hexagon cloud pattern over Saturn but it's probably not a temperature effect: http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060519/full/news060515-17.html http://www.nature.com/news/2006/060519/full/news060515-17.ht...

tom_rath 16y ago
Do we have sufficient data to conclude that other planets are not warming? How far back does our accurate, consistent measurement go? Years? A decade or two? I'm not sure we have sufficient data to conclude anything right now. We know astoundingly little about the neighbourhood we live in.
- mrkurt 16y ago
  I don't want to sound like too much of a jackass here, but do you have any reason to think that other planets are warming? The rhetorical technique of "pose a question without any real backing, then demand proof when someone answers" drives me nuts.
  - tom_rath 16y ago
    Yes. For one, there's that big ol' fusion furnace in the middle of the place that's tossing out a variable amount of energy as time goes on. Examining the weather of other planets would help explain if solar activity or other factors are affecting planetary temperatures more than recent human actions.
    - demallien 16y ago
      The sun isn't responsible for global warming. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7327393.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7327393.stm
      - tom_rath 16y ago
        Please don't bring that politicized stuff into the discussion. That's a different flame war entirely. If Jupiter is warming/cooling or Mars is warming/cooling, then something has to be responsible for it, and it sure isn't human activity. If not the sun, then what? Something about planetary environments we're likely interested in learning more about, right?
        demallien 16y ago
        You don't get to just label contrary scientific findings as 'political', and dismiss it out of hand. Here's the published paper that the article refers to: http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/3/2/024001/ http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/3/2/024001/ The correlations don't hold up under analysis, and that's really all there is to be said on the subject. But if you feel that you can refute that paper with evidence, then go for it. I for one would love for you to be right, It's no doubt save me (and everyone else on the planet) a whole load of economic pain. Sadly, reality does't seem to be going along with my desires.
        tom_rath 16y ago
        I didn't dismiss/refute/claim anything or intend to start yet another global warming flame war. I'm probably as familiar with that research as you are and I'm not refuting it. If other planets are warming/cooling then something is responsible for it. If it's not the sun, then it's something else related to planetary environments with which we are not familiar. Studying that would be A Good Idea, regardless of where people stand on global warming, because examining Earth alone just gives us a single data point. What's happening on Mars? Does it parallel the changes we're seeing on Earth to some degree? What's happening in Jupiter's atmosphere to bring about such a dramatic change in a short period of time? Could we see a similar dramatic change on this planet?
- Retric 16y ago
  Do we have sufficient data to conclude that other planets are not warming? Yes. The theory that the sun is causing global worming fails on several levels and there is zero evidence from the data we have that global the sun is causing global warming. PS: Presenting a theory with zero support and then requesting more evidence from theory’s that have support is not rational behavior. You can request all the evidence you want but at the end of the day whichever theory has the MOST evidence is more likely to be correct.

lutorm 16y ago

Jupiter's atmosphere is really complex, probably more so than the Earth's due to its internal heat, high spin rate and lack of surface. I'm not sure we should look there for clues about the changes in the Sun. Probably much easier to just measure the solar output.