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Just FYI, you can click their name and view their profile to see how old the account is. I can't speak to the "not addressed to you" portion of the GP's post,

by rmxt 10y ago

Just FYI, you can click their name and view their profile to see how old the account is. I can't speak to the "not addressed to you" portion of the GP's post, because I do believe than HN benefits from its open discussion format, that allows for both threaded discussion and open commenting. But, I would venture to say that it's quite deceitful, i.e. an "aggressive demand", to drop in what you apparently know (c.f. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354198) will be an analogy (this one here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353366 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353366) that inspires "negative emotions" without providing any supporting arguments or information in the same post. Rather than starting from a point that (you do seem to know) will be inflammatory, why not start from claims directly related to the topic at hand, and work your way up to the point where the logic of making the analogy is immaculately clear? In this thread, you start with a 'jump' (straight to the civil rights movement), and then trickle out the details in children comments [1,2,3,5] as to why your point is relevant, and why people should ignore their emotional responses [4,5] like you do. Inducing emotional responses in others with one's writing is inevitable -- do you actually want to convince people of why your point holds water (using something like the strategy I propose), or do you only want to evoke anger and get people turning away in a huff (what you've done in this thread)? [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354048 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354048 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353661 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353661 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354108 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354108 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354198 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354198 [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13357684 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13357684

SamReidHughes 10y ago
> In this thread, you start with a 'jump' (straight to the civil rights movement), and then trickle out the details in children comments [1,2,3,5] as to why your point is relevant, It should be very clear from the original post why the point is relevant. Some people might need some extra explaining, but they try their best to need it.
- rmxt 10y ago
  The depths to which this thread has reached suggests that the point's relevance (or perhaps more appropriately, "appropriateness") is not as clear as you seem to think. Your slight towards other posters aside, what is easier to change? The HN-commentariat at large ("they try their best to need it")? Or, each of us as individuals, trying to compose our arguments and points in a widely receivable, understandable, and relatable way? (That is, what I am trying to encourage above.)
yummyfajitas 10y ago
...without providing any supporting arguments or information in the same post. Nothing in the comments you linked to is, textually speaking, a demand. Would you describe my comment as an "aggressive demand" if I were simply expressing ideas that are completely conventional? work your way up to the point where the logic of making the analogy is immaculately clear? Assuming I were expressing conventional ideas, would it be necessary for me to address every possible counterpoint in the original comment to avoid making an "aggressive demand"? I think you are wrong in suggesting that people didn't understand the logic. Here are a bunch of comments that understood just fine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354341 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354341 Inducing emotional responses in others with one's writing is inevitable -- do you actually want to convince people of why your point holds water (using something like the strategy I propose), or do you only want to evoke anger and get people turning away in a huff (what you've done in this thread)? Paul Graham wrote a great essay a while back called "how to disagree". Levels 0-2 (name calling, ad hominem and responding to tone, respectively) are quite common in the broader world. As Trump vs Crooked Hillary demonstrates, level 0 is quite effective at persuading the masses. http://paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://paulgraham.com/disagree.html On HN, I generally make the good faith assumption that we can discuss things at a higher level (e.g. 4 or higher). This thread definitely demonstrates that as a belief about the world, this is probably not super accurate. Is it your genuine belief that if I phrased my comment differently, I would have avoided the level 0-2 reactions to it? How would you have phrased it?

by rmxt 10y ago

SamReidHughes 10y ago

> In this thread, you start with a 'jump' (straight to the civil rights movement), and then trickle out the details in children comments [1,2,3,5] as to why your point is relevant, It should be very clear from the original post why the point is relevant. Some people might need some extra explaining, but they try their best to need it.

rmxt 10y ago
The depths to which this thread has reached suggests that the point's relevance (or perhaps more appropriately, "appropriateness") is not as clear as you seem to think. Your slight towards other posters aside, what is easier to change? The HN-commentariat at large ("they try their best to need it")? Or, each of us as individuals, trying to compose our arguments and points in a widely receivable, understandable, and relatable way? (That is, what I am trying to encourage above.)

yummyfajitas 10y ago

...without providing any supporting arguments or information in the same post. Nothing in the comments you linked to is, textually speaking, a demand. Would you describe my comment as an "aggressive demand" if I were simply expressing ideas that are completely conventional? work your way up to the point where the logic of making the analogy is immaculately clear? Assuming I were expressing conventional ideas, would it be necessary for me to address every possible counterpoint in the original comment to avoid making an "aggressive demand"? I think you are wrong in suggesting that people didn't understand the logic. Here are a bunch of comments that understood just fine: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353968 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353848 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353773 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13353794 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354341 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13354341 Inducing emotional responses in others with one's writing is inevitable -- do you actually want to convince people of why your point holds water (using something like the strategy I propose), or do you only want to evoke anger and get people turning away in a huff (what you've done in this thread)? Paul Graham wrote a great essay a while back called "how to disagree". Levels 0-2 (name calling, ad hominem and responding to tone, respectively) are quite common in the broader world. As Trump vs Crooked Hillary demonstrates, level 0 is quite effective at persuading the masses. http://paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://paulgraham.com/disagree.html On HN, I generally make the good faith assumption that we can discuss things at a higher level (e.g. 4 or higher). This thread definitely demonstrates that as a belief about the world, this is probably not super accurate. Is it your genuine belief that if I phrased my comment differently, I would have avoided the level 0-2 reactions to it? How would you have phrased it?