7 ms·

Woodworker. From running two small ecommerce companies I think I've learned enough about MVP, shipping, inventory management, etc. From 25 years as a software

by tjic 10y ago

Woodworker. From running two small ecommerce companies I think I've learned enough about MVP, shipping, inventory management, etc. From 25 years as a software engineer I've learned about building tools to automate steps. I'd pick some "hard to find / expensive niche (e.g. Greene and Greene, Art Nouveau, etc.), but offer repeatable designs, not do custom work. That would allow for lots of jigs, fixtures, using cheap machines in duplicate to eliminate setup times, etc. ...and then after growing sales and shaking the bugs out of the production, I'd hire assistants to keep cranking stuff out. Eventually I'd allow customers to start turbing a few "knobs" on products, via a website tool (this isn't too much falling back into software, is it?), which results in customized cut lists being kicked out for my assistants. Mass customization.

Toadsoup 10y ago
I like this. I've been thinking about a lot about software to help improve workshop efficiency or to design interesting things.
creativeembassy 10y ago
I love this. My single regret about doing programming for a living is that I rarely have anything physical to show for my work at the end of the day. I've been looking at hobbies to pick up that involve making things with my hands. This is an innovative way to do both.
- wolrah 10y ago
  > My single regret about doing programming for a living is that I rarely have anything physical to show for my work at the end of the day. This is the most challenging thing about most IT jobs. I was working "maintenance" (read: janitor that occasionally builds things) at an outlet mall before I fell in to an internship that led to the VoIP/MSP job I've been working for the last decade. I'm making a lot more money and I never have to clean up bodily fluids, but rarely does this job provide any real end-of-day satisfaction. Maybe once a month I get to work on a project that when complete I can stand back and have something tangible to be proud of. On the other hand from just a summer of working at the outlet mall there are a half dozen things I worked on that I can see from the highway as I drive by now 12 years later. Even the cleanup work had a clearly defined "task complete" state that anyone could see.
  - DaveWalk 10y ago
    Amen to tangible evidence! I feel similarly about my current career, but there are two things to keep in mind: the grass is always greener, and you can do something on your own terms (hobby) that fills the same niche. Thus, woodworking, or even painting, volunteering, etc. As for the grass being greener, it's important to keep perspective about what the former was. I think your example re: bodily fluids is a pretty good example :)
- fma 10y ago
  Same here. My undergrad & grad degree was Computer Engineering (Hardware focus) and Electrical Engineering. I made things (circuit boards), and programmed things that moved (robotics). But lots of money in web apps...
- devrelm 10y ago
  I love woodworking as well, and have completed a few little projects since buying a house and finally having a garage/workshop. But, if that's not something you have the space/money for yet, I think that cooking is a nice substitute hobby. There's a lot to learn with tools and technique, and you get the immediate satisfaction of seeing (and tasting!) your finished product. Just be careful though -- I've injured myself many more times in the kitchen than in the garage.
bungie4 10y ago
This is funny, I came into programming from being a high end cabinet maker. I had to give it up because I'm allergic to the components that make up the 'smell' of red oak. Which we worked with a lot. Theirs a real satisfaction in looking at a your work at the end of the day and being able to SEE it.
- lloyd-christmas 10y ago
  I've always whittled as a fun side hobby. My desire to do anything bigger is limited by a fear of the table saw. As a lefty, nothing in the shop plays nice with me. I'm too worried about losing a finger which would impact my income stream as well as my other hobby, piano. But, I still spend more time looking at joinery than I do on HN.
  - nsomaru 10y ago
    Saw Stop might interest you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiYoBbEZwlk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiYoBbEZwlk
    - rl3 10y ago
      That's incredible. Theoretically you could even wear gloves and the saw would stop as soon as it reached tissue. Although, some sort of conductive work gloves might serve as an additional safety layer so it doesn't even have to hit tissue.
      - mkching 10y ago
        In general, it's a bad idea to wear gloves when working with spinning tools. If the glove snags the wrong way, it can pull your whole hand into the tool.
        AnimalMuppet 10y ago
        Ditto rings, for the same reason.
mellery451 10y ago
Luthiery specifically for me - it's a hobby currently and the thing I think about the most when I'm programming. The tooling and jig making aspect of woodworking is also very satisfying to my engineering tendencies.
- rebuilder 10y ago
  I have to plug David Hurds "Left-brain lutherie" here! It's a physicist's attempt to demystify the building of guitar-family instruments, and in addition to providing a pretty in-depth look at the major components of an instrument's sound, provides many immediately practical tips on construction - for example, how to choose the proper soundhole size.
conorcleary 10y ago
Look into producing beehive equipment; even if you're not a beekeeper, there is a constant and large demand for high quality, low price woodenware. Fairly easy to set up jigs and it is easy to find blueprints. By the end you'll be a beekeeper anyway ;)
thebspatrol 10y ago
This reminds me of Matthias Wandel. He's really one of the most impressive woodworkers I've ever seen. It's so clear to me that he still thinks like a software engineer.
- alex_hitchins 10y ago
  I was going to make the same comment. I believe he worked as a developer for RIM (Blackberry). I would urge all to check him out on YouTube. Entertaining and you will likely learn something new.
  - mattdotc 10y ago
    My only regret about getting into his channel is that now I have seen all of his videos and I have to wait 7 days for each new one. His channel is great for more than just its content; it's also inspirational. My father has been a hobbyist woodworker and he has a small basement shop. Growing up I would frequently be down there with him 'helping' here and there, but never really built much of anything on my own besides a few small projects. Watching Matthias' videos rekindled my interest in the hobby and I even picked up some new tricks along the way. It has also been great to get back into the shop with my dad and spend real quality time with him. Matthias, if you ever read this: thanks!!!
- elzi 10y ago
  Love that guy, his channel is so great. Sometimes I think it appeals to me (and engineers in general) because spending so much time developing software... when not working on front-end/UI, it's all intangible. Just abstract bytes cast into the void. I need to make things in the physical realm more often.
PaulHoule 10y ago
Manufacturing of any kind is as competitive as hell. Certainly it is possible to succeed there, but I think many manufacturers are already far ahead of the average software shop in terms of automation.
- tjic 10y ago
  > Manufacturing of any kind is as competitive as hell. Absolutely true. And this is why I was very specific about picking a high end niche, and using tons of jigs, etc. If you try to make rocking chairs, or cabinets, or whatever, you're going to be undercut by people in Malaysia, or huge factories in North Carolina. You need something where there is a LOT of complexity AND a relatively small market, both to serve as walls to market entrants.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  High quality and custom made stuff are always hard to find. You normally can't build a big business on any of those niches, but it may be enough to sustain a single-person shop.
elastic_church 10y ago
yeah software engineers are able to pursue art niches better than artists because of having more capital they totally should
shimon 10y ago
This is more similar than it first sounds... you're proposing a variant of ecommerce that includes production of the goods. You'd still start by identifying a product niche with strong demand. You'd begin with flexible but expensive production options, then automate incrementally as you figure out which products can scale. You'd invest in technology to help you maintain an advantage over other vendors. This is actually very similar to how semi-custom cabinets are made and sold, aside from the web interface. There is a catalog of available cabinets, and each cabinet can be customized in a variety of ways. For example, you can order a drawer + cupboard base cabinet with 2 roll trays and finished left side. The cabinets are built to order, but from a standard set of parts. They're built in a factory and shipped to the job site fully assembled. (One big maker is Masterbrand, which like GM offers many similar products under a variety of sub-brands.) Instead of the web, though, cabinet selections are typically made by a kitchen designer, because the customer is not sufficiently skilled to take responsibility that the items ordered will actually fit. This might be a problem in woodworking, though perhaps less so for furniture.
- tjic 10y ago
  yep!
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
MCompeau 10y ago
I'm basically in the process of pursuing this dream. Previously I was an architect in Canada where we did a lot of large scale wood structures using sophisticated computational fabrication techniques. These types of sophisticated projects though were fairly risky for property developers making them somewhat rare. So I struck out on my own to try to develop a small business around the most 'automatable' work I could afford to get into - which is basically a prototyping shop that offers laser cutting and engraving of wood products. We've been fairly successful with it, and so now we're starting to develop product customizers that allow customers to order custom work which we can fabricate on demand without having to interact with the customer in person (a major source of overhead in most custom fabrication shops). Here's an early beta example of one we're working on for the wedding industry if you're interested: https://www.instantcaketopper.com https://www.instantcaketopper.com
- arrmn 10y ago
  So it's basically wood that people put on their cake, never saw something like this. Is common in Canada & US?
  - rev_bird 10y ago
    I've not seen a wooden cake topper like this, but it's very common (and used to be pretty much mandatory, if I understand right) to have something on top of the cake, usually little figurines representing the bride and groom.
    - arrmn 10y ago
      I've seen cake toppers for special occasion, like bride and groom, flowers but never saw a wooden one. I was wondering if wooden cake toppers are a thing over there
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
pieperz 10y ago
+1 on the Woodworking.... I started StumpCrafters.com just a few months ago and its great. I love being out in the shop more and still getting to do a few things with code here and there. Im not quite there with the customization yet but its in the works. Check it out at: https://stumpcrafters.com https://stumpcrafters.com https://facebook.com/stumpcrafters https://facebook.com/stumpcrafters https://instagram.com/stumpcrafters https://instagram.com/stumpcrafters https://twitter.com/stumpcrafters https://twitter.com/stumpcrafters edit: formating
- mrtron 10y ago
  I am a bit confused what stumpcrafters is after going to the website. There is some sort of game...and you sell these pieces of wood for the game?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - pieperz 10y ago
    This page explanes it the best. https://stumpcrafters.com/pages/what-is-the-stump-game https://stumpcrafters.com/pages/what-is-the-stump-game TLDR; The Stump Game is played with a Stump, nails, and a hammer. Win by being the last nail above the face of the stump.
    - mattsnuts 10y ago
      They play a similar drinking game in ski bars in Austria - you each get 3 swings of the hammer, before passing the hammer on. Last nail left buys a round. Except you have to hit the nails in with the other end of the hammer, the part for pulling out the nails. I'm not kidding, in the middle of bars they have a big ol' tree stump full of nails
    - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhtHbqjp8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhtHbqjp8I seems to explain it better ... if you can sell people small stumps of wood for $80 I think you'll go far ;o)
pmyjavec 10y ago
That doesn't really sound like a "woodworker".
irrational 10y ago
Came here to say this. I have a garage full of tools (I built all of our kitchen cabinets and other built-in furniture). I'd love to have more time for woodworking.

by tjic 10y ago

Toadsoup 10y ago

I like this. I've been thinking about a lot about software to help improve workshop efficiency or to design interesting things.

creativeembassy 10y ago

I love this. My single regret about doing programming for a living is that I rarely have anything physical to show for my work at the end of the day. I've been looking at hobbies to pick up that involve making things with my hands. This is an innovative way to do both.

wolrah 10y ago
> My single regret about doing programming for a living is that I rarely have anything physical to show for my work at the end of the day. This is the most challenging thing about most IT jobs. I was working "maintenance" (read: janitor that occasionally builds things) at an outlet mall before I fell in to an internship that led to the VoIP/MSP job I've been working for the last decade. I'm making a lot more money and I never have to clean up bodily fluids, but rarely does this job provide any real end-of-day satisfaction. Maybe once a month I get to work on a project that when complete I can stand back and have something tangible to be proud of. On the other hand from just a summer of working at the outlet mall there are a half dozen things I worked on that I can see from the highway as I drive by now 12 years later. Even the cleanup work had a clearly defined "task complete" state that anyone could see.
- DaveWalk 10y ago
  Amen to tangible evidence! I feel similarly about my current career, but there are two things to keep in mind: the grass is always greener, and you can do something on your own terms (hobby) that fills the same niche. Thus, woodworking, or even painting, volunteering, etc. As for the grass being greener, it's important to keep perspective about what the former was. I think your example re: bodily fluids is a pretty good example :)
fma 10y ago
Same here. My undergrad & grad degree was Computer Engineering (Hardware focus) and Electrical Engineering. I made things (circuit boards), and programmed things that moved (robotics). But lots of money in web apps...
devrelm 10y ago
I love woodworking as well, and have completed a few little projects since buying a house and finally having a garage/workshop. But, if that's not something you have the space/money for yet, I think that cooking is a nice substitute hobby. There's a lot to learn with tools and technique, and you get the immediate satisfaction of seeing (and tasting!) your finished product. Just be careful though -- I've injured myself many more times in the kitchen than in the garage.

bungie4 10y ago

This is funny, I came into programming from being a high end cabinet maker. I had to give it up because I'm allergic to the components that make up the 'smell' of red oak. Which we worked with a lot. Theirs a real satisfaction in looking at a your work at the end of the day and being able to SEE it.

lloyd-christmas 10y ago
I've always whittled as a fun side hobby. My desire to do anything bigger is limited by a fear of the table saw. As a lefty, nothing in the shop plays nice with me. I'm too worried about losing a finger which would impact my income stream as well as my other hobby, piano. But, I still spend more time looking at joinery than I do on HN.
- nsomaru 10y ago
  Saw Stop might interest you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiYoBbEZwlk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiYoBbEZwlk
  - rl3 10y ago
    That's incredible. Theoretically you could even wear gloves and the saw would stop as soon as it reached tissue. Although, some sort of conductive work gloves might serve as an additional safety layer so it doesn't even have to hit tissue.
    - mkching 10y ago
      In general, it's a bad idea to wear gloves when working with spinning tools. If the glove snags the wrong way, it can pull your whole hand into the tool.
      - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
        Ditto rings, for the same reason.

mellery451 10y ago

Luthiery specifically for me - it's a hobby currently and the thing I think about the most when I'm programming. The tooling and jig making aspect of woodworking is also very satisfying to my engineering tendencies.

rebuilder 10y ago
I have to plug David Hurds "Left-brain lutherie" here! It's a physicist's attempt to demystify the building of guitar-family instruments, and in addition to providing a pretty in-depth look at the major components of an instrument's sound, provides many immediately practical tips on construction - for example, how to choose the proper soundhole size.

conorcleary 10y ago

Look into producing beehive equipment; even if you're not a beekeeper, there is a constant and large demand for high quality, low price woodenware. Fairly easy to set up jigs and it is easy to find blueprints. By the end you'll be a beekeeper anyway ;)

thebspatrol 10y ago

This reminds me of Matthias Wandel. He's really one of the most impressive woodworkers I've ever seen. It's so clear to me that he still thinks like a software engineer.

alex_hitchins 10y ago
I was going to make the same comment. I believe he worked as a developer for RIM (Blackberry). I would urge all to check him out on YouTube. Entertaining and you will likely learn something new.
- mattdotc 10y ago
  My only regret about getting into his channel is that now I have seen all of his videos and I have to wait 7 days for each new one. His channel is great for more than just its content; it's also inspirational. My father has been a hobbyist woodworker and he has a small basement shop. Growing up I would frequently be down there with him 'helping' here and there, but never really built much of anything on my own besides a few small projects. Watching Matthias' videos rekindled my interest in the hobby and I even picked up some new tricks along the way. It has also been great to get back into the shop with my dad and spend real quality time with him. Matthias, if you ever read this: thanks!!!
elzi 10y ago
Love that guy, his channel is so great. Sometimes I think it appeals to me (and engineers in general) because spending so much time developing software... when not working on front-end/UI, it's all intangible. Just abstract bytes cast into the void. I need to make things in the physical realm more often.

PaulHoule 10y ago

Manufacturing of any kind is as competitive as hell. Certainly it is possible to succeed there, but I think many manufacturers are already far ahead of the average software shop in terms of automation.

tjic 10y ago
> Manufacturing of any kind is as competitive as hell. Absolutely true. And this is why I was very specific about picking a high end niche, and using tons of jigs, etc. If you try to make rocking chairs, or cabinets, or whatever, you're going to be undercut by people in Malaysia, or huge factories in North Carolina. You need something where there is a LOT of complexity AND a relatively small market, both to serve as walls to market entrants.
marcosdumay 10y ago
High quality and custom made stuff are always hard to find. You normally can't build a big business on any of those niches, but it may be enough to sustain a single-person shop.

elastic_church 10y ago

yeah software engineers are able to pursue art niches better than artists because of having more capital they totally should

shimon 10y ago

This is more similar than it first sounds... you're proposing a variant of ecommerce that includes production of the goods. You'd still start by identifying a product niche with strong demand. You'd begin with flexible but expensive production options, then automate incrementally as you figure out which products can scale. You'd invest in technology to help you maintain an advantage over other vendors. This is actually very similar to how semi-custom cabinets are made and sold, aside from the web interface. There is a catalog of available cabinets, and each cabinet can be customized in a variety of ways. For example, you can order a drawer + cupboard base cabinet with 2 roll trays and finished left side. The cabinets are built to order, but from a standard set of parts. They're built in a factory and shipped to the job site fully assembled. (One big maker is Masterbrand, which like GM offers many similar products under a variety of sub-brands.) Instead of the web, though, cabinet selections are typically made by a kitchen designer, because the customer is not sufficiently skilled to take responsibility that the items ordered will actually fit. This might be a problem in woodworking, though perhaps less so for furniture.

tjic 10y ago
yep!
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

MCompeau 10y ago

I'm basically in the process of pursuing this dream. Previously I was an architect in Canada where we did a lot of large scale wood structures using sophisticated computational fabrication techniques. These types of sophisticated projects though were fairly risky for property developers making them somewhat rare. So I struck out on my own to try to develop a small business around the most 'automatable' work I could afford to get into - which is basically a prototyping shop that offers laser cutting and engraving of wood products. We've been fairly successful with it, and so now we're starting to develop product customizers that allow customers to order custom work which we can fabricate on demand without having to interact with the customer in person (a major source of overhead in most custom fabrication shops). Here's an early beta example of one we're working on for the wedding industry if you're interested: https://www.instantcaketopper.com https://www.instantcaketopper.com

arrmn 10y ago
So it's basically wood that people put on their cake, never saw something like this. Is common in Canada & US?
- rev_bird 10y ago
  I've not seen a wooden cake topper like this, but it's very common (and used to be pretty much mandatory, if I understand right) to have something on top of the cake, usually little figurines representing the bride and groom.
  - arrmn 10y ago
    I've seen cake toppers for special occasion, like bride and groom, flowers but never saw a wooden one. I was wondering if wooden cake toppers are a thing over there

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

pieperz 10y ago

+1 on the Woodworking.... I started StumpCrafters.com just a few months ago and its great. I love being out in the shop more and still getting to do a few things with code here and there. Im not quite there with the customization yet but its in the works. Check it out at: https://stumpcrafters.com https://stumpcrafters.com https://facebook.com/stumpcrafters https://facebook.com/stumpcrafters https://instagram.com/stumpcrafters https://instagram.com/stumpcrafters https://twitter.com/stumpcrafters https://twitter.com/stumpcrafters edit: formating

mrtron 10y ago
I am a bit confused what stumpcrafters is after going to the website. There is some sort of game...and you sell these pieces of wood for the game?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- pieperz 10y ago
  This page explanes it the best. https://stumpcrafters.com/pages/what-is-the-stump-game https://stumpcrafters.com/pages/what-is-the-stump-game TLDR; The Stump Game is played with a Stump, nails, and a hammer. Win by being the last nail above the face of the stump.
  - mattsnuts 10y ago
    They play a similar drinking game in ski bars in Austria - you each get 3 swings of the hammer, before passing the hammer on. Last nail left buys a round. Except you have to hit the nails in with the other end of the hammer, the part for pulling out the nails. I'm not kidding, in the middle of bars they have a big ol' tree stump full of nails
  - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhtHbqjp8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqhtHbqjp8I seems to explain it better ... if you can sell people small stumps of wood for $80 I think you'll go far ;o)

pmyjavec 10y ago

That doesn't really sound like a "woodworker".

irrational 10y ago

Came here to say this. I have a garage full of tools (I built all of our kitchen cabinets and other built-in furniture). I'd love to have more time for woodworking.