5 ms·

It's supposed to mess up the stats and inject uncertainty into ad analysis. They are trying to bring down the price of ads on the internet, thus making them un

It's supposed to mess up the stats and inject uncertainty into ad analysis. They are trying to bring down the price of ads on the internet, thus making them unprofitable. I hope they succeed.

blauditore 10y ago
I find it a bit harsh to be so hostile towards online ads. After all, it's has been a significant source of income for innovative companies or services that couldn't exist otherwise, because users are notoriously reluctant to pay for virtual goods. Yes, tracking and overly intrusive fullpage popups are real issues, but not all ads are inherently evil.
- philipov 10y ago
  Not all dictators are inherently evil either, but because of the state into which a dictatorial ecosystem inevitably declines, we don't want them either.
- na85 10y ago
  I can't name a single online service that is supported by ads and that I couldn't live without. >not all ads are inherently evil. All advertising is manipulation. Advertisers are bad and should feel bad.
  - ChristianBundy 10y ago
    Serious question, but how do you feel about persuasion? Is all persuasion inherently manipulative, or are there some types of persuasion/marketing that don't cross the line and become "manipulation"?
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      It's a blurry line, but I believe it passes far to the left of advertising. One dimension of that distinction is intent - are you trying to persuade me having my best interests in mind (including not applying the technique if you're not sure about the consequences)? Then I'll probably be fine with it, and consider it an act of friendship. Are you trying to exploit me by convincing me to make self-harming decisions? I'd consider this an act of malice. An attack. Advertising of all kinds would be fine if it performed just the information function - by honestly trying to paint the whole picture and give all relevant information to enable customers to make a rational choice. As it is today, it's squarely in the malicious, abusive zone.
  - dpark 10y ago
    > I can't name a single online service that is supported by ads and that I couldn't live without. How about search and email? All the major players are ad supported.
    - djsumdog 10y ago
      I run my own email service. I also find search currently very disappointing. Google, Yahoo, duckduckgo? Remember when they were several major indexes? Lycos, Altavista, etc. Today Google actively removes things from their index at the requests of various governments and entertainment industries. We have very little choice in search, leaving much of the web unlocatable.
      - notahacker 10y ago
        I don't remember Lycos/Altavista etc rendering anywhere near as much of the web (as a proportion of what existed back then) locatable, having a radical stance on copyright or having less obtrusive ads...
        dpark 10y ago
        I vividly remember being unable to find anything useful in the first half-dozen pages on Lycos and Altavista and Yahoo and all the others, which is why Google took the entire market when they showed up with PageRank.
    - godshatter 10y ago
      I am in the process of switching everything over to fastmail, which is a paid email service without ads, because I dislike the current state of the advertising industry so much. Plus, I'm now in a financial relationship where I am the customer, not the product. I might likely do the same for a search page if such a thing existed and the price was right. Until then I use startpage or duckduckgo to (attempt to) retain some anonymity.
  - CaptSpify 10y ago
    https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/web/AdSupportedWebDeathView https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/web/AdSupportedWebD... > essentially all of the ad supported sites I visit are diversions
  - blauditore 10y ago
    I prefer classic advertisement labelled as such over subliminal manipulation like product placements or fake reviews / fake "fans" on social platforms. And frankly, I even discovered products through ads I might have never found otherwise, even though that's not how it should be in a perfect world.
  - floweringlotus 10y ago
    If I have a friend who I know is interested in a particular author, and I notice that that author has released a new book, is it evil for me to tell my friend? I don't think it is. I'm connecting a producer and a consumer in both of their best interests. When the producer is the one who asks an entity like Facebook "who enjoys this author?" and advertises the new book to them, why is this evil? People have desires, and without advertising it is very difficult to connect those people with producers who can fulfill them. I think advertising isn't inherently evil, just some tactics used to persuade people with misinformation.
    - na85 10y ago
      Ignoring your false equivalence: If you already want something, then the ads are useless because the entire point of an ad is to manipulate me into buying something I didn't want to buy. If I want to buy the book already because I am interested in the author's books then the books sell themselves without need for ads.
  - VikingCoder 10y ago
    So you're taking all of those services away from other people.
    - na85 10y ago
      So, I have to waste my mobile bandwidth on ads because you want free email?
      - VikingCoder 10y ago
        I see ads in my gmail. How exactly does that force you to see ads on your mobile bandwidth?
- hedora 10y ago
  This extension only clicks tracking ads. The authors seem to primarily be upset about mass surveillance. I'd hope that it enables do not track, and also checks for tracking cookies before clicking, but haven't looked carefully.
- amelius 10y ago
  > [...] because users are notoriously reluctant to pay for virtual goods Perhaps the reason for this is that virtual goods have often been for free, because of ads (?)
- jlarocco 10y ago
  I strongly disagree, and feel the overall utility and usability of the internet has been negatively affected by advertisements. Companies that can't survive by selling a product or service directly probably should go out of business, IMO.
  - VikingCoder 10y ago
    You get that companies that sell a product or service ALSO show advertisements too, don't you?
VikingCoder 10y ago
...because you want the sites that use ads to all go paywall?

It's supposed to mess up the stats and inject uncertainty into ad analysis. They are trying to bring down the price of ads on the internet, thus making them unprofitable. I hope they succeed.

blauditore 10y ago

I find it a bit harsh to be so hostile towards online ads. After all, it's has been a significant source of income for innovative companies or services that couldn't exist otherwise, because users are notoriously reluctant to pay for virtual goods. Yes, tracking and overly intrusive fullpage popups are real issues, but not all ads are inherently evil.

philipov 10y ago
Not all dictators are inherently evil either, but because of the state into which a dictatorial ecosystem inevitably declines, we don't want them either.
na85 10y ago
I can't name a single online service that is supported by ads and that I couldn't live without. >not all ads are inherently evil. All advertising is manipulation. Advertisers are bad and should feel bad.
- ChristianBundy 10y ago
  Serious question, but how do you feel about persuasion? Is all persuasion inherently manipulative, or are there some types of persuasion/marketing that don't cross the line and become "manipulation"?
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    It's a blurry line, but I believe it passes far to the left of advertising. One dimension of that distinction is intent - are you trying to persuade me having my best interests in mind (including not applying the technique if you're not sure about the consequences)? Then I'll probably be fine with it, and consider it an act of friendship. Are you trying to exploit me by convincing me to make self-harming decisions? I'd consider this an act of malice. An attack. Advertising of all kinds would be fine if it performed just the information function - by honestly trying to paint the whole picture and give all relevant information to enable customers to make a rational choice. As it is today, it's squarely in the malicious, abusive zone.
- dpark 10y ago
  > I can't name a single online service that is supported by ads and that I couldn't live without. How about search and email? All the major players are ad supported.
  - djsumdog 10y ago
    I run my own email service. I also find search currently very disappointing. Google, Yahoo, duckduckgo? Remember when they were several major indexes? Lycos, Altavista, etc. Today Google actively removes things from their index at the requests of various governments and entertainment industries. We have very little choice in search, leaving much of the web unlocatable.
    - notahacker 10y ago
      I don't remember Lycos/Altavista etc rendering anywhere near as much of the web (as a proportion of what existed back then) locatable, having a radical stance on copyright or having less obtrusive ads...
      - dpark 10y ago
        I vividly remember being unable to find anything useful in the first half-dozen pages on Lycos and Altavista and Yahoo and all the others, which is why Google took the entire market when they showed up with PageRank.
  - godshatter 10y ago
    I am in the process of switching everything over to fastmail, which is a paid email service without ads, because I dislike the current state of the advertising industry so much. Plus, I'm now in a financial relationship where I am the customer, not the product. I might likely do the same for a search page if such a thing existed and the price was right. Until then I use startpage or duckduckgo to (attempt to) retain some anonymity.
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/web/AdSupportedWebDeathView https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/web/AdSupportedWebD... > essentially all of the ad supported sites I visit are diversions
- blauditore 10y ago
  I prefer classic advertisement labelled as such over subliminal manipulation like product placements or fake reviews / fake "fans" on social platforms. And frankly, I even discovered products through ads I might have never found otherwise, even though that's not how it should be in a perfect world.
- floweringlotus 10y ago
  If I have a friend who I know is interested in a particular author, and I notice that that author has released a new book, is it evil for me to tell my friend? I don't think it is. I'm connecting a producer and a consumer in both of their best interests. When the producer is the one who asks an entity like Facebook "who enjoys this author?" and advertises the new book to them, why is this evil? People have desires, and without advertising it is very difficult to connect those people with producers who can fulfill them. I think advertising isn't inherently evil, just some tactics used to persuade people with misinformation.
  - na85 10y ago
    Ignoring your false equivalence: If you already want something, then the ads are useless because the entire point of an ad is to manipulate me into buying something I didn't want to buy. If I want to buy the book already because I am interested in the author's books then the books sell themselves without need for ads.
- VikingCoder 10y ago
  So you're taking all of those services away from other people.
  - na85 10y ago
    So, I have to waste my mobile bandwidth on ads because you want free email?
    - VikingCoder 10y ago
      I see ads in my gmail. How exactly does that force you to see ads on your mobile bandwidth?
hedora 10y ago
This extension only clicks tracking ads. The authors seem to primarily be upset about mass surveillance. I'd hope that it enables do not track, and also checks for tracking cookies before clicking, but haven't looked carefully.
amelius 10y ago
> [...] because users are notoriously reluctant to pay for virtual goods Perhaps the reason for this is that virtual goods have often been for free, because of ads (?)
jlarocco 10y ago
I strongly disagree, and feel the overall utility and usability of the internet has been negatively affected by advertisements. Companies that can't survive by selling a product or service directly probably should go out of business, IMO.
- VikingCoder 10y ago
  You get that companies that sell a product or service ALSO show advertisements too, don't you?

VikingCoder 10y ago

...because you want the sites that use ads to all go paywall?