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I am a systems programmer working at a company with a largely C++ codebase. We don't use Rust. It has nothing to do with the reasons mentioned in the article o

I am a systems programmer working at a company with a largely C++ codebase. We don't use Rust. It has nothing to do with the reasons mentioned in the article or this thread. Here are a list of requirements for us to use Rust: - Does it support all of the following architectures? x86_64, ARM, MIPS, powerPC - Does it support soft float? - Can it link against uclibc instead of glibc? - Can it link against arbitrary C libraries? - Can I use a C library's header.h file without having to hand-recode it to Rust? - Will the code I write now continue to compile 5 years from now? Does Rust score a resounding "YES" on ALL of the above questions?

w8rbt 10y ago
All of that will come after rust gets an ISO standard (like C and C++). Joking aside, C++ will be around forever and to a lesser degree, C will be too. They have 45 years of experience and revision. 50 years from now they'll probably still run the world just as they do today. C++11 and beyond is just as safe as any language. Rust came to be about 10 years too late.
- notriddle 10y ago
  > C++11 and beyond is just as safe as any language. That's just not accurate. This is UB, despite being done entirely using modern C++ API: #include <iostream> #include <vector> using namespace std; int main() { std::vector<int> v; v.push_back(1); v.push_back(2); v.push_back(3); v.push_back(4); for (int i : v) { v.push_back(5); std::cout << i << std::endl; v.push_back(6); } return 0; } I ran it on https://code.sololearn.com/caR4o14MOCWr/#cpp https://code.sololearn.com/caR4o14MOCWr/#cpp and got this output: 1 8519872 3 4
steveklabnik 10y ago
1. Yes. https://forge.rust-lang.org/platform-support.html https://forge.rust-lang.org/platform-support.html 2. Yes, though it's kind of awkward. 3. There were some patches in the queue, I forget if/how they landed. 4. Yes. 5. Sort of. You have to rely on a tool to do it; they work reasonably well but aren't perfect yet. 6. Unless you're relying on something with a soundness hole, which we reserve the right to fix, and will be trivial to upgrade for you.
dikaiosune 10y ago
It mostly scores a "YES", where there are footnotes. AFAIK all of these things are being worked on. > Does it support all of the following architectures? x86_64, ARM, MIPS, powerPC It does: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/getting-started.html#tier-2 https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/getting-started.html#tier-2. Granted, while tier 2 support is pretty good, it isn't the same level of support as the tier 1 platforms. > Does it support soft float? From running `rustc -C help`: -C soft-float -- use soft float ABI (*eabihf targets only) > Can it link against uclibc instead of glibc? It can link against musl, but I'm not sure whether that would enable uclibc. Probably? > Can it link against arbitrary C libraries? Yes. > Can I use a C library's header.h file without having to hand-recode it to Rust? You can use something like rust-bindgen (https://github.com/Yamakaky/rust-bindgen https://github.com/Yamakaky/rust-bindgen) which will work with a minimal amount of cleanup afterwards in my experience. Still not a resounding yes, though. > Will the code I write now continue to compile 5 years from now? Yes. See https://blog.rust-lang.org/2014/10/30/Stability.html https://blog.rust-lang.org/2014/10/30/Stability.html for more about the plans/policies/etc.
- bmalehorn 10y ago
  Great, thanks for the reply and links. Sounds to me like the current state is "doable," but not "solid." I can convince myself to try it out, but not my whole company. But, maybe this will improve over time.
  - dikaiosune 10y ago
    That seems like a fair summary to me. Several of these items (better interop with existing libraries, for example) came up in the recent 2017 roadmap RFC conversation, and I would expect them to improve in the future. Also, if you do try Rust and find other issues that would be blockers for your company to pilot a project, I know that the teams have been very eager to get feedback from "systems" shops on what would be needed to get them trying Rust out commercially.

w8rbt 10y ago

All of that will come after rust gets an ISO standard (like C and C++). Joking aside, C++ will be around forever and to a lesser degree, C will be too. They have 45 years of experience and revision. 50 years from now they'll probably still run the world just as they do today. C++11 and beyond is just as safe as any language. Rust came to be about 10 years too late.

notriddle 10y ago
> C++11 and beyond is just as safe as any language. That's just not accurate. This is UB, despite being done entirely using modern C++ API: #include <iostream> #include <vector> using namespace std; int main() { std::vector<int> v; v.push_back(1); v.push_back(2); v.push_back(3); v.push_back(4); for (int i : v) { v.push_back(5); std::cout << i << std::endl; v.push_back(6); } return 0; } I ran it on https://code.sololearn.com/caR4o14MOCWr/#cpp https://code.sololearn.com/caR4o14MOCWr/#cpp and got this output: 1 8519872 3 4

steveklabnik 10y ago

1. Yes. https://forge.rust-lang.org/platform-support.html https://forge.rust-lang.org/platform-support.html 2. Yes, though it's kind of awkward. 3. There were some patches in the queue, I forget if/how they landed. 4. Yes. 5. Sort of. You have to rely on a tool to do it; they work reasonably well but aren't perfect yet. 6. Unless you're relying on something with a soundness hole, which we reserve the right to fix, and will be trivial to upgrade for you.

dikaiosune 10y ago

It mostly scores a "YES", where there are footnotes. AFAIK all of these things are being worked on. > Does it support all of the following architectures? x86_64, ARM, MIPS, powerPC It does: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/getting-started.html#tier-2 https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/getting-started.html#tier-2. Granted, while tier 2 support is pretty good, it isn't the same level of support as the tier 1 platforms. > Does it support soft float? From running `rustc -C help`: -C soft-float -- use soft float ABI (*eabihf targets only) > Can it link against uclibc instead of glibc? It can link against musl, but I'm not sure whether that would enable uclibc. Probably? > Can it link against arbitrary C libraries? Yes. > Can I use a C library's header.h file without having to hand-recode it to Rust? You can use something like rust-bindgen (https://github.com/Yamakaky/rust-bindgen https://github.com/Yamakaky/rust-bindgen) which will work with a minimal amount of cleanup afterwards in my experience. Still not a resounding yes, though. > Will the code I write now continue to compile 5 years from now? Yes. See https://blog.rust-lang.org/2014/10/30/Stability.html https://blog.rust-lang.org/2014/10/30/Stability.html for more about the plans/policies/etc.

bmalehorn 10y ago
Great, thanks for the reply and links. Sounds to me like the current state is "doable," but not "solid." I can convince myself to try it out, but not my whole company. But, maybe this will improve over time.
- dikaiosune 10y ago
  That seems like a fair summary to me. Several of these items (better interop with existing libraries, for example) came up in the recent 2017 roadmap RFC conversation, and I would expect them to improve in the future. Also, if you do try Rust and find other issues that would be blockers for your company to pilot a project, I know that the teams have been very eager to get feedback from "systems" shops on what would be needed to get them trying Rust out commercially.