8 ms·

Pontificating but for ide + editor replacement: someday we'll see ai/ml features that aide in opening files and keeping the right blobs of code nearby, maybe pr

by hans 10y ago

Pontificating but for ide + editor replacement: someday we'll see ai/ml features that aide in opening files and keeping the right blobs of code nearby, maybe pre fetch good goog links that can drop down on a whim panel. Even some kind of auto model visualizer that helps every so often like a replacement for the ignoble package mmanager side panel view. We're still so stuck on text editing.

_binder 10y ago
Reminds me of helm and ivy in emacs
marktangotango 10y ago
All this exists in various IDE's for various languages (except the prefetch of 'good' google links) re keeping related code globs around. In particular Netbeans IDE supports a lot of dynamic languages. It's php, python, and javascript plugins all offer project views other than "what's on the filesystem", intellisense, code completion as you type. I suggest spending time exploring existing options if one hasn't. RE editing text: whatever code object model one can imagine, it generally always serializes to text. I for one don't see the benefit of editing an abstract model in place of text. An example I liked was Fortress [1]. Fortress was a language that attempted to let users write code in mathematical notation using a special latex editor (iirc). It was found to be not a huge win, and they reverted to 'normal' syntax. This was one of Guy Steeles projects at sun. So having said that, there are languages where editing the model is editing text: Lisp and Scheme. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_(programming_language...
blakeyrat 10y ago
I think we need to first get over the hurdle of "code == text". I mean, the features you talk about are great-- but right now I can't even embed a little vector graphic explaining a function's flow in my source file. Every time I've suggested using a file format that allows things like fonts, styles, embedded images, to write my code, the reaction is always an insanely irrational knee-jerk against it. (Seriously, try it out with your programmer colleagues.) (And to prod the bear a bit, a large part of the problem is the developers who insist in working in tools like the ones we're discussing here, designed in the '70s and using absolutely no technology that was invented after 1985 or so. Ludicrous. Imagine if any other industry worked that way!) Then a couple days later, you found out they spent like an hour making ASCII art of some diagram because they couldn't just paste the actual diagram into the code. Sigh. Reason #3136269 I don't get along with other programmers. I mean you're talking about advanced AI code that looks up Google links to explain code constructs, meanwhile 95% of the industry is using a code editor that doesn't even allow you to embed a link in a code file. (If you're lucky, it'll make an obvious URL clickable, that's about the best you get.)
- spc476 10y ago
  To prod back, you have three source code files---one is in Word Perfect format from 1987. The second is from Microsoft Word from 1998. The third is an ASCII text file from 1972. Which one can you open and reuse today?
  - buzzybee 10y ago
    None of them! The ASCII file might be legible, but then it turns out that you don't have the correct build environment or all the dependencies, so the code isn't useful to you as-is.
  - blakeyrat 10y ago
    I can open all of those formats in Microsoft Word right now this instant. So. Good argument?
    - spc476 10y ago
      No. How about Easy Writer II? Or even Type-Rite?
- drew-y 10y ago
  This is actually something that can be done in the IDE distributed with Racket (https://racket-lang.org/ https://racket-lang.org/). When I first started playing with the language one of the biggest things that stood out was the ability to embed images straight into the source code. It's pretty neat and I other platforms adopt it.
- notheguyouthink 10y ago
  To be fair, why does it need to be imbedded in the code? Why can't it just be a plain text link to a binary file (your vector image), which automatically embeds for supported editors? What you're talking about is turning source code into a binary object. That's fine, if you use an editor that supports it, but you shun all other editors when you do that. There is a middleground that doesn't involve making your source code into rich text, imo.
hans 10y ago
I'm not against text underneath, just the sense logic needs to get much better with dev tools. it's like we're ignoring our own needs :] intellij + eclipse (worse), and that old model of an IDE requires too much elbow wringing and imo never sense's the right stuff to really groove with my work. there's more that could come with ai/ml for tooling, and hopefully soon.

by hans 10y ago

_binder 10y ago

Reminds me of helm and ivy in emacs

marktangotango 10y ago

All this exists in various IDE's for various languages (except the prefetch of 'good' google links) re keeping related code globs around. In particular Netbeans IDE supports a lot of dynamic languages. It's php, python, and javascript plugins all offer project views other than "what's on the filesystem", intellisense, code completion as you type. I suggest spending time exploring existing options if one hasn't. RE editing text: whatever code object model one can imagine, it generally always serializes to text. I for one don't see the benefit of editing an abstract model in place of text. An example I liked was Fortress [1]. Fortress was a language that attempted to let users write code in mathematical notation using a special latex editor (iirc). It was found to be not a huge win, and they reverted to 'normal' syntax. This was one of Guy Steeles projects at sun. So having said that, there are languages where editing the model is editing text: Lisp and Scheme. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortress_(programming_language...

blakeyrat 10y ago

I think we need to first get over the hurdle of "code == text". I mean, the features you talk about are great-- but right now I can't even embed a little vector graphic explaining a function's flow in my source file. Every time I've suggested using a file format that allows things like fonts, styles, embedded images, to write my code, the reaction is always an insanely irrational knee-jerk against it. (Seriously, try it out with your programmer colleagues.) (And to prod the bear a bit, a large part of the problem is the developers who insist in working in tools like the ones we're discussing here, designed in the '70s and using absolutely no technology that was invented after 1985 or so. Ludicrous. Imagine if any other industry worked that way!) Then a couple days later, you found out they spent like an hour making ASCII art of some diagram because they couldn't just paste the actual diagram into the code. Sigh. Reason #3136269 I don't get along with other programmers. I mean you're talking about advanced AI code that looks up Google links to explain code constructs, meanwhile 95% of the industry is using a code editor that doesn't even allow you to embed a link in a code file. (If you're lucky, it'll make an obvious URL clickable, that's about the best you get.)

spc476 10y ago
To prod back, you have three source code files---one is in Word Perfect format from 1987. The second is from Microsoft Word from 1998. The third is an ASCII text file from 1972. Which one can you open and reuse today?
- buzzybee 10y ago
  None of them! The ASCII file might be legible, but then it turns out that you don't have the correct build environment or all the dependencies, so the code isn't useful to you as-is.
- blakeyrat 10y ago
  I can open all of those formats in Microsoft Word right now this instant. So. Good argument?
  - spc476 10y ago
    No. How about Easy Writer II? Or even Type-Rite?
drew-y 10y ago
This is actually something that can be done in the IDE distributed with Racket (https://racket-lang.org/ https://racket-lang.org/). When I first started playing with the language one of the biggest things that stood out was the ability to embed images straight into the source code. It's pretty neat and I other platforms adopt it.
notheguyouthink 10y ago
To be fair, why does it need to be imbedded in the code? Why can't it just be a plain text link to a binary file (your vector image), which automatically embeds for supported editors? What you're talking about is turning source code into a binary object. That's fine, if you use an editor that supports it, but you shun all other editors when you do that. There is a middleground that doesn't involve making your source code into rich text, imo.

hans 10y ago

I'm not against text underneath, just the sense logic needs to get much better with dev tools. it's like we're ignoring our own needs :] intellij + eclipse (worse), and that old model of an IDE requires too much elbow wringing and imo never sense's the right stuff to really groove with my work. there's more that could come with ai/ml for tooling, and hopefully soon.