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Presumably it would be the holders of the putatively infringed patents that would be assembling the "pool". I don't think Apple is in the Video Codec patent-hol

Presumably it would be the holders of the putatively infringed patents that would be assembling the "pool". I don't think Apple is in the Video Codec patent-holding business. As a major licensee of H.264, you'd have to presume Apple be in a position to know if someone else was rounding up the usual suspects.

vetinari 16y ago
Apple is not only licensee, but also licensor. Every time you license H.264 (or something other from MPEG-4 pool), a cut goes to Apple (also to Microsoft and Nokia).
- riferguson 16y ago
  I stand corrected. Apple has one patent in the H.264 pool, US 7292636, and one in the MPEG-4 Systems pool, US 6134243. I have no idea if either of these would be relevant to Theora. For what it's worth, there are hundreds of patents in the total MPEG-LA pool.
  - kierank 16y ago
    MPEG-4 Systems is not offered any more (since it's effectively dead).
    - vetinari 16y ago
      "Systems" is mp4 container. Did you mean MPEG-4 Part 2 (Advanced Simple Profile)?
      - kierank 16y ago
        The things which are patented generally apply to parts of the spec that have never been deployed.
  - samps 16y ago
    > For what it's worth, there are hundreds of patents in the total MPEG-LA pool. Furthermore, it's not clear what Apple would stand to gain by enforcing its two patents that may or may not be relevant to Theora. Maybe I'm wrong, but media patent enforcement doesn't seem to be one of Apple's core businesses (HTC lawsuit notwithstanding). There are plenty of other companies, though, that likely have a vested interest in protecting their much-larger video patent portfolios. I think it would be wrong to assume at this point that Apple is instigating patent litigation against Theora. Occam's razor would encourage the view that Apple knows the people who want to take down Theora and is rationally fearful of them.
    - jcl 16y ago
      Apple stands to gain more than just licensing fees by threatening any non-H.264 codec. As Steve Jobs points out in his "Thoughts on Flash", Apple has millions of devices in the wild whose hardware is optimized exclusively for H.264. If any other video format gains dominance, the devices will not work nearly as well (cutting the battery life by half just to play an older codec, in his example).
      - Terretta 16y ago
        No, his example referenced a little known fact about H.264, comparing hardware decodable H.264 versus non-hardware-decodable H.264. The iPhone isn't playing some other codec. H.264 can be encoded, using the same tools, in a way that can, or cannot, be hardware decoded.
        jcl 16y ago
        I was pretty sure he was referring to VP6-encoded Flash video, not some version of H.264 that is harder to decode. Could you provide more information on non-hardware-decodable versions?
        vetinari 16y ago
        He probably means H.264 profiles. iPhone (and Android phones) can decode only certain profiles (Baseline), and up to certain levels (depending on resolution). Even hardware assisted decoding with PC graphics cards can accelerate only up to certain level (usually high@4.1, but some nvidias can decode high@5). The rest is more complex than hardware assisted decoders are able to decode and pure software codec has to be used.

vetinari 16y ago

Apple is not only licensee, but also licensor. Every time you license H.264 (or something other from MPEG-4 pool), a cut goes to Apple (also to Microsoft and Nokia).

riferguson 16y ago
I stand corrected. Apple has one patent in the H.264 pool, US 7292636, and one in the MPEG-4 Systems pool, US 6134243. I have no idea if either of these would be relevant to Theora. For what it's worth, there are hundreds of patents in the total MPEG-LA pool.
- kierank 16y ago
  MPEG-4 Systems is not offered any more (since it's effectively dead).
  - vetinari 16y ago
    "Systems" is mp4 container. Did you mean MPEG-4 Part 2 (Advanced Simple Profile)?
    - kierank 16y ago
      The things which are patented generally apply to parts of the spec that have never been deployed.
- samps 16y ago
  > For what it's worth, there are hundreds of patents in the total MPEG-LA pool. Furthermore, it's not clear what Apple would stand to gain by enforcing its two patents that may or may not be relevant to Theora. Maybe I'm wrong, but media patent enforcement doesn't seem to be one of Apple's core businesses (HTC lawsuit notwithstanding). There are plenty of other companies, though, that likely have a vested interest in protecting their much-larger video patent portfolios. I think it would be wrong to assume at this point that Apple is instigating patent litigation against Theora. Occam's razor would encourage the view that Apple knows the people who want to take down Theora and is rationally fearful of them.
  - jcl 16y ago
    Apple stands to gain more than just licensing fees by threatening any non-H.264 codec. As Steve Jobs points out in his "Thoughts on Flash", Apple has millions of devices in the wild whose hardware is optimized exclusively for H.264. If any other video format gains dominance, the devices will not work nearly as well (cutting the battery life by half just to play an older codec, in his example).
    - Terretta 16y ago
      No, his example referenced a little known fact about H.264, comparing hardware decodable H.264 versus non-hardware-decodable H.264. The iPhone isn't playing some other codec. H.264 can be encoded, using the same tools, in a way that can, or cannot, be hardware decoded.
      - jcl 16y ago
        I was pretty sure he was referring to VP6-encoded Flash video, not some version of H.264 that is harder to decode. Could you provide more information on non-hardware-decodable versions?
        vetinari 16y ago
        He probably means H.264 profiles. iPhone (and Android phones) can decode only certain profiles (Baseline), and up to certain levels (depending on resolution). Even hardware assisted decoding with PC graphics cards can accelerate only up to certain level (usually high@4.1, but some nvidias can decode high@5). The rest is more complex than hardware assisted decoders are able to decode and pure software codec has to be used.