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> If there's a country where people would be genuinely putting up barricades over privacy issues, that's Germany. Really, why would you think that? Because of

by binarray2000 10y ago

> If there's a country where people would be genuinely putting up barricades over privacy issues, that's Germany. Really, why would you think that? Because of Stasi? That was quarter a century ago. Almost forgotten. Ask representative sample of Germans what was Stasi and, I strongly assume, most wouldn't know anything about it. Especially the younger generation. Sadly. Or because of Nazi time? Despite Hitler (and Hitler-related) documentaries being constantly shown in German TV, most Germans are still not aware of the methods being used by the Nazis to keep Germans under surveillance during that time. Sadly. And, if lots of people do go out and do demonstrate/voice their discontent? In October 2015 250,000 people demonstrated in Berlin against TTIP (for US friends: EU-USA TPP) [1] and what did "das Merkel" do? Nothing, it's TTIP full steam ahead! Then 1.6 million Germans (together with 3.3 million EU citizens in total) signed a petition against TTIP. Government spokeperson: "Merkel will not receive a petition". [2] Recently, "over 300,000" people have demonstrated against TTIP and CETA (for US friends: EU-Canada TPP) and what was the reaction of the Government? "It's their right to demonstrate". [3] Has anything changed in the policy of the German government after all these democratic means? I think you can answer this question yourself. This system we live in doesn't work. It probably never did, but we didn't notice it. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/10/berlin-anti-ttip-trade-deal-rally-hundreds-thousands-protesters https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/10/berlin-anti-tt... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQykeaSC3Dk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQykeaSC3Dk [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOEWkH8RpgM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOEWkH8RpgM

y16b61dlqkw 10y ago
Indeed German politicians have been consistently ignoring their voters' mandate for the last two decades: The SPD (originally the worker's party) has destroyed the welfare state, the CDU (center right) lets in millions of refugees, and the Green party (originally anti war) goes to war. It will be interesting what happens in the next federal elections. In the Berlin state elections the "ultra right" AfD had 12%. The reason is of course that they also represent positions that originally were part of regular conservative agenda. After the state elections Merkel suddenly started to (pretended to?) listen to some voter concerns. Apparently in Germany politicians only react if protest parties approach 20% results.
- binarray2000 10y ago
  What do you think, why is that so? - Why have social-democrats dismantled the social state? - Why have center-right let over 1.5 million refugees in? - Why does the Green party go to war? - Why does the German political establishment pretend to listen with AfD breathing down their necks? - Why don't they care about the voice of the people even thou they talk about "the people being querulous of democracy" (Demokratieverdrossenheit) in numerous political talk shows for the last twenty years? - What's next after limiting privacy rights? - Does all this happen just by chance?
  - tdkl 10y ago
    When money talks, bullshit walks.
- allendoerfer 10y ago
  > The SPD (originally the worker's party) has destroyed the welfare state, the CDU (center right) lets in millions of refugees, and the Green party (originally anti war) goes to war. While true, it was a bit more complicated than that, so I will add three facts, that are also true: - There were 5 million unemployed people in Germany and it was called "the sick man of Europe", the SPD had to do something. Economically Germany has never been better off than today. - The Green party fought physically against its leaders about going to war [0]. There were war crimes being committed right inside Europe, so ultimately they decided for the lesser of two evils. - The CDU's full name is Christian Democratic Union. I think you can justify your actions, when you are doing literally what it says in your name. I think you can also make the argument, that "ignoring your voters mandate" by being fundamentalist does not lead you anywhere. Merkel has been chancellor since forever. SPD and the Green party implemented some of their policies, because they are able to compromise. The Left party holds true to its voters mandate, thereby securing Merkel, because you simply cannot work with fundamentalists. Their domestic policy essentially is to spend all the money (TM), their foreign policy is to make the leading power of Europe behave like an inflated Switzerland. A bonus on top is their very questionable relationship with their past as the governing party of the GDR. So as long as they are not ignoring their voters mandate in some areas - you simply cannot govern Germany, if you want to leave NATO - they will get non of their voters will implemented as policies and Merkel will stay in office. [0] https://www.phoenix.de/content/phoenix/bibliothek/441774 https://www.phoenix.de/content/phoenix/bibliothek/441774

y16b61dlqkw 10y ago

Indeed German politicians have been consistently ignoring their voters' mandate for the last two decades: The SPD (originally the worker's party) has destroyed the welfare state, the CDU (center right) lets in millions of refugees, and the Green party (originally anti war) goes to war. It will be interesting what happens in the next federal elections. In the Berlin state elections the "ultra right" AfD had 12%. The reason is of course that they also represent positions that originally were part of regular conservative agenda. After the state elections Merkel suddenly started to (pretended to?) listen to some voter concerns. Apparently in Germany politicians only react if protest parties approach 20% results.

binarray2000 10y ago
What do you think, why is that so? - Why have social-democrats dismantled the social state? - Why have center-right let over 1.5 million refugees in? - Why does the Green party go to war? - Why does the German political establishment pretend to listen with AfD breathing down their necks? - Why don't they care about the voice of the people even thou they talk about "the people being querulous of democracy" (Demokratieverdrossenheit) in numerous political talk shows for the last twenty years? - What's next after limiting privacy rights? - Does all this happen just by chance?
- tdkl 10y ago
  When money talks, bullshit walks.
allendoerfer 10y ago
> The SPD (originally the worker's party) has destroyed the welfare state, the CDU (center right) lets in millions of refugees, and the Green party (originally anti war) goes to war. While true, it was a bit more complicated than that, so I will add three facts, that are also true: - There were 5 million unemployed people in Germany and it was called "the sick man of Europe", the SPD had to do something. Economically Germany has never been better off than today. - The Green party fought physically against its leaders about going to war [0]. There were war crimes being committed right inside Europe, so ultimately they decided for the lesser of two evils. - The CDU's full name is Christian Democratic Union. I think you can justify your actions, when you are doing literally what it says in your name. I think you can also make the argument, that "ignoring your voters mandate" by being fundamentalist does not lead you anywhere. Merkel has been chancellor since forever. SPD and the Green party implemented some of their policies, because they are able to compromise. The Left party holds true to its voters mandate, thereby securing Merkel, because you simply cannot work with fundamentalists. Their domestic policy essentially is to spend all the money (TM), their foreign policy is to make the leading power of Europe behave like an inflated Switzerland. A bonus on top is their very questionable relationship with their past as the governing party of the GDR. So as long as they are not ignoring their voters mandate in some areas - you simply cannot govern Germany, if you want to leave NATO - they will get non of their voters will implemented as policies and Merkel will stay in office. [0] https://www.phoenix.de/content/phoenix/bibliothek/441774 https://www.phoenix.de/content/phoenix/bibliothek/441774