5 ms·

When Hillary lost to one of the worst candidates ever in Trump, then its her fault. But from what I seen in social media, Hillary's supporters are just blaming

by ilolu 10y ago

When Hillary lost to one of the worst candidates ever in Trump, then its her fault. But from what I seen in social media, Hillary's supporters are just blaming everyone else for the loss rather than finding fault in their candidate. I have even seen tweets claiming all Trump's voters (60 million people) are sexist, racist etc. It could just be a simple fact that people value other things more than just sexism and racism. Trump just sold people a better future to this voters than Hillary did. Whether he is going to solve any issues of his voters, is a different thing.

mannykannot 10y ago
The issue that the democratic party should probably be taking a look at is how Clinton set herself up as the presumptive candidate even before the primaries.
vertex-four 10y ago
How Trump won is a different question from whether Trump's voters are directly responsible for the harm that will be caused to minority groups in the next 4-8 years. Hillary can be an awful candidate and Trump's supporters can have caused harm towards people on the basis of race and gender - it's not an either/or.
- travmatt 10y ago
  Can't wait to see - the voting rights act is effectively dead, I wonder how effective Pence will be in pushing conversion therapy on the LGBT community.
- choko 10y ago
  You make these statements as if they are a certainty. If you would step from the echo chamber for just a moment, perhaps you might see that many of the accusations thrown at the Republican candidate were trumped up by the media. I'm optimistic that he's not half as bad as CNN would lead us to believe.
allengeorge 10y ago
While I'm sure that sexism and racism does play a role for some voters, I believe (anecdotally, without data-based evidence) that its influence is overstated. Commentators who simply point to those factors are demonizing the "other" and perversely, are making it even harder to achieve consensus on issues. After all, how can you respect your opponent if they're sexist or racist? That aside, broadly, Hillary lost because she: - Represented the establishment - Was uninspiring - Was followed by the aura of 'scandal' (Benghazi and the email server are the two I've heard the most) I think people were simply tired of establishment politicians who they felt never listened to them and never worked for their interests anyways - and just wanted someone radically different. It also helped that Trump's message "Make America Great Again" is trivially inspiring and broadly resonates. People feel that there's something wrong - that the social contract is gone, and they want to be part of a future where that greatness and their part in it exists again.
- ilolu 10y ago
  I am from India and I have seen middle class people talking about sexism, racism as major points while discussing candidates. But when people are worried about leading a respectful life and make the future of their children safer, you cannot expect them to vote on sexism and racism as major topics in an election. You need to sell them a future. And Trump sold them a future with "Make America Great Again". And Bernie was also selling people a future where corporations don't decide ur life. Hillary was basically telling America is great already. Think of people who are anxious economically hearing that.
- calebm 10y ago
  About half of Trump's supporters were women; which sex are sexist against?
- Wellshit 10y ago
  I guess https://twitter.com/search?q=treats%20women%20from%3AHillaryClinton&src=typd&lang=pt https://twitter.com/search?q=treats%20women%20from%3AHillary...
yolesaber 10y ago
Hillary was definitely an incredibly weak and flawed candidate. I'm of the opinion that Sanders would've walloped Trump. But I do have some input regarding the racial dimension of things... >I have even seen tweets claiming all Trump's voters (60 million people) are sexist, racist etc. It could just be a simple fact that people value other things more than just sexism and racism. I see a campaign that ran on hate and anger for the 'other'. A campaign that white nationalists have called a blessing. A candidate endorsed by the KKK. A candidate that tweeted out a picture of Hillary Clinton with a Star of David affixed to her. Trump relied upon a lot of economic anxiety as well but much of that was codified in racial terms: that Obama was serving the interests of black folks more, that white people were being marginalized in the culture, that brown rapists are coming for their jobs and their daughters. How can a vote for Trump not be seen as sexist, racist, and xenophobic? I'm sick of this shit saying we need to understand the other side and find out why they are so angry. I think it's pretty clear why Trump supporters are so angry. I've been to Trump rallies, I've talked to supporters, and you know what most of it comes down to? They want 'their' America back. They say they want to end corruption and take down the political establishment, but they voted for a candidate who is stacking the whitehouse with slimeball careerists like Pence, Gingrich, and Christie. But that seems to be okay with them, because it's 'their' side i.e. white revanchists. In a country with such charged racial history as the US, is it really unbelievable that millions have regressive views regarding race? Look at how awful Obama is treated by some of these people - that he's a muslim, he secretly hates America and funds ISIS. And even if the voters themselves aren't racist, they are complicit in voting for a man who undoubtedly is. Where does that leave them?
- ilolu 10y ago
  But still you can't label 60 million people just because they voted for Trump. There will be few who are racist. But by labelling everyone, you are basically ignoring the reasons they voted for Trump and increasing the divide. Trump took advantage of the many people's anxiety. What should be done is take steps for an inclusive growth including people who are anxious, dis-enchanted with establishment. But by labelling them, you are basically discriminating them and pushing them further away.
  - 10y ago
k__ 10y ago
> people value other things more than just sexism and racism I think the point is, that most people have a rather extreme picture of being a sexist or racist. No you don't have to run around and rape women to be a sexist No you don't have to shave your head and batter blacks to be a racist. It is enough if you simply accept people being that way. And if you voted for Trump you didn't just accept that he is sexist or racist, you even approved for it by giving him something despite him acting like that. The simple fact is, now people think it's okay to propagate hate if you get enough out of it.
- DefaultUserHN 10y ago
  Falsely accusing Trump and Trump supporters of being racist was the reason why Trump won the Primary. Doubling-down on the racist accusation was why Trump proceeded to win the President. Now, you're going to triple-down on it? LOL. Some people never learn.
baldfat 10y ago
> Trump just sold people a better future to this voters than Hillary did. Whether he is going to solve any issues of his voters, is a different thing. Really I found what he sold was doom and gloom. Death of America if he wasn't elected. Seriously asking because I guess I am blind but what future is he selling besides we all would cease to exist as a country and a democracy if he lost?
- gorbachev 10y ago
  His underlying message was almost the same as Bernie Sanders', i.e. "the establishment is not serving you, but the corporate overlords". That's not doom and gloom. It's the reality of much of America. The people living that reality blame the Clintons (and Obama, and to a lesser degree the two Bushes) for making it happen. That's ultimately why he won. He got some bonus votes from racists and other kooks, and he wrapped his core message in the typical right-wing xenophobia that resonates well with the base of the modern GOP.
- candiodari 10y ago
  https://www.donaldjtrump.com/contract/ https://www.donaldjtrump.com/contract/ See "actions to protect the American worker", essentially, isolationism. Anti NAFTA, anti TPP, anti China dumping, anti UN regulations (ie. anti climate change, or at least anti economic impact from climate change). In the last section there's something about working to punish people employing illegal immigrants, which is a very sore point with poor Americans. These are not going to be very popular actions on Hacker News, but is it that hard to see that there's a TON of poor Americans this would resonate with ?
  - baldfat 10y ago
    None of that is a positive motivated promise. Everyone of them come from a negative stopping promise. Also he won't get but a few dfinished of those things done. AKA Term Limits in Congress LOL Also we became the number one energy producing nation, under Obama, in the world he is acting like we have been holding off of trillions of revenue. I hope I wrong but none of that is a future this is fixing yesterdays problems.
  - 10y ago

by ilolu 10y ago

mannykannot 10y ago

The issue that the democratic party should probably be taking a look at is how Clinton set herself up as the presumptive candidate even before the primaries.

vertex-four 10y ago

How Trump won is a different question from whether Trump's voters are directly responsible for the harm that will be caused to minority groups in the next 4-8 years. Hillary can be an awful candidate and Trump's supporters can have caused harm towards people on the basis of race and gender - it's not an either/or.

travmatt 10y ago
Can't wait to see - the voting rights act is effectively dead, I wonder how effective Pence will be in pushing conversion therapy on the LGBT community.
choko 10y ago
You make these statements as if they are a certainty. If you would step from the echo chamber for just a moment, perhaps you might see that many of the accusations thrown at the Republican candidate were trumped up by the media. I'm optimistic that he's not half as bad as CNN would lead us to believe.

allengeorge 10y ago

While I'm sure that sexism and racism does play a role for some voters, I believe (anecdotally, without data-based evidence) that its influence is overstated. Commentators who simply point to those factors are demonizing the "other" and perversely, are making it even harder to achieve consensus on issues. After all, how can you respect your opponent if they're sexist or racist? That aside, broadly, Hillary lost because she: - Represented the establishment - Was uninspiring - Was followed by the aura of 'scandal' (Benghazi and the email server are the two I've heard the most) I think people were simply tired of establishment politicians who they felt never listened to them and never worked for their interests anyways - and just wanted someone radically different. It also helped that Trump's message "Make America Great Again" is trivially inspiring and broadly resonates. People feel that there's something wrong - that the social contract is gone, and they want to be part of a future where that greatness and their part in it exists again.

ilolu 10y ago
I am from India and I have seen middle class people talking about sexism, racism as major points while discussing candidates. But when people are worried about leading a respectful life and make the future of their children safer, you cannot expect them to vote on sexism and racism as major topics in an election. You need to sell them a future. And Trump sold them a future with "Make America Great Again". And Bernie was also selling people a future where corporations don't decide ur life. Hillary was basically telling America is great already. Think of people who are anxious economically hearing that.
calebm 10y ago
About half of Trump's supporters were women; which sex are sexist against?
Wellshit 10y ago
I guess https://twitter.com/search?q=treats%20women%20from%3AHillaryClinton&src=typd&lang=pt https://twitter.com/search?q=treats%20women%20from%3AHillary...

yolesaber 10y ago

Hillary was definitely an incredibly weak and flawed candidate. I'm of the opinion that Sanders would've walloped Trump. But I do have some input regarding the racial dimension of things... >I have even seen tweets claiming all Trump's voters (60 million people) are sexist, racist etc. It could just be a simple fact that people value other things more than just sexism and racism. I see a campaign that ran on hate and anger for the 'other'. A campaign that white nationalists have called a blessing. A candidate endorsed by the KKK. A candidate that tweeted out a picture of Hillary Clinton with a Star of David affixed to her. Trump relied upon a lot of economic anxiety as well but much of that was codified in racial terms: that Obama was serving the interests of black folks more, that white people were being marginalized in the culture, that brown rapists are coming for their jobs and their daughters. How can a vote for Trump not be seen as sexist, racist, and xenophobic? I'm sick of this shit saying we need to understand the other side and find out why they are so angry. I think it's pretty clear why Trump supporters are so angry. I've been to Trump rallies, I've talked to supporters, and you know what most of it comes down to? They want 'their' America back. They say they want to end corruption and take down the political establishment, but they voted for a candidate who is stacking the whitehouse with slimeball careerists like Pence, Gingrich, and Christie. But that seems to be okay with them, because it's 'their' side i.e. white revanchists. In a country with such charged racial history as the US, is it really unbelievable that millions have regressive views regarding race? Look at how awful Obama is treated by some of these people - that he's a muslim, he secretly hates America and funds ISIS. And even if the voters themselves aren't racist, they are complicit in voting for a man who undoubtedly is. Where does that leave them?

ilolu 10y ago
But still you can't label 60 million people just because they voted for Trump. There will be few who are racist. But by labelling everyone, you are basically ignoring the reasons they voted for Trump and increasing the divide. Trump took advantage of the many people's anxiety. What should be done is take steps for an inclusive growth including people who are anxious, dis-enchanted with establishment. But by labelling them, you are basically discriminating them and pushing them further away.
- 10y ago

k__ 10y ago

> people value other things more than just sexism and racism I think the point is, that most people have a rather extreme picture of being a sexist or racist. No you don't have to run around and rape women to be a sexist No you don't have to shave your head and batter blacks to be a racist. It is enough if you simply accept people being that way. And if you voted for Trump you didn't just accept that he is sexist or racist, you even approved for it by giving him something despite him acting like that. The simple fact is, now people think it's okay to propagate hate if you get enough out of it.

DefaultUserHN 10y ago
Falsely accusing Trump and Trump supporters of being racist was the reason why Trump won the Primary. Doubling-down on the racist accusation was why Trump proceeded to win the President. Now, you're going to triple-down on it? LOL. Some people never learn.

baldfat 10y ago

> Trump just sold people a better future to this voters than Hillary did. Whether he is going to solve any issues of his voters, is a different thing. Really I found what he sold was doom and gloom. Death of America if he wasn't elected. Seriously asking because I guess I am blind but what future is he selling besides we all would cease to exist as a country and a democracy if he lost?

gorbachev 10y ago
His underlying message was almost the same as Bernie Sanders', i.e. "the establishment is not serving you, but the corporate overlords". That's not doom and gloom. It's the reality of much of America. The people living that reality blame the Clintons (and Obama, and to a lesser degree the two Bushes) for making it happen. That's ultimately why he won. He got some bonus votes from racists and other kooks, and he wrapped his core message in the typical right-wing xenophobia that resonates well with the base of the modern GOP.
candiodari 10y ago
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/contract/ https://www.donaldjtrump.com/contract/ See "actions to protect the American worker", essentially, isolationism. Anti NAFTA, anti TPP, anti China dumping, anti UN regulations (ie. anti climate change, or at least anti economic impact from climate change). In the last section there's something about working to punish people employing illegal immigrants, which is a very sore point with poor Americans. These are not going to be very popular actions on Hacker News, but is it that hard to see that there's a TON of poor Americans this would resonate with ?
- baldfat 10y ago
  None of that is a positive motivated promise. Everyone of them come from a negative stopping promise. Also he won't get but a few dfinished of those things done. AKA Term Limits in Congress LOL Also we became the number one energy producing nation, under Obama, in the world he is acting like we have been holding off of trillions of revenue. I hope I wrong but none of that is a future this is fixing yesterdays problems.
- 10y ago