6 ms·

This doesn't sound unthinkable in other countries. I'm from Norway, where the maximum prison sentence is 21 years, with a third of that often being deducted for

by CRidge 10y ago

This doesn't sound unthinkable in other countries. I'm from Norway, where the maximum prison sentence is 21 years, with a third of that often being deducted for good behavior, leaving 14 years.

martijn_himself 10y ago
Agreed! That will probably generate a lot of debate when Breivik comes up for release.
- Broken_Hippo 10y ago
  I live in Norway, though not Norwegian. From what I can tell it already generates a lot of debate. The sentencing seems to generate debate when someone does any sort of heinous crime. At the same time, folks seem rather proud of the system itself. And I think folks should be. I'm American, the land of petty imprisonments and punishments lasting long after prison time is served. The system here seems to produce much better outcomes for both the people imprisoned and the community around them.
  - martijn_himself 10y ago
    The least proud people will probably be the families of victims- and they matter the most. I agree there is a balance to be struck, the American system seems to be the other extreme.
    - bahjoite 10y ago
      > The least proud people will probably be the families of victims- and they matter the most Why do the families of victims matter the most? Does not every person matter equally?
      - lisivka 10y ago
        Did you hear about vendeta?
    - continuational 10y ago
      I'm sure the families of the victims would vastly prefer not to be in this situation in the first place, over getting some petty revenge. That's why the priority must be to bring down the overall number of vitims.
charlesdm 10y ago
Should a killer get released after 14 years though, after "good behavior"? If we're talking about premeditated murder, you can be pretty sure you're dealing with an individual who doesn't have good behavior. Second, 14 (or 21) years for murder, really? A life isn't worth a lot anymore these days..
- gpvos 10y ago
  In the Netherlands, 20 years (with early release after 13-14 years) used to be the maximum sentence, apart from life sentence, which actually used to be really for life. Parole is possible, but seldom used; release for good behaviour (after a certain minimum number of years) was not possible at all. The European Court for Human Rights actually recently forced us to implement an early release possibility. I think a few years ago we also got a 30 year option (with early release after 20), because judges weren't willing to impose a life sentence due to the aforementioned reason. Also, 14/21 years is about 20-25% of one's life. I think that's quite a lot, really.
- ordinary 10y ago
  Prison sentences in the Netherlands for aren't imposed as punishment alone, not even mostly. They are primarily tools of prevention (including the prevention of recidivism). If a convicted criminal is no longer considered to be a threat to society what's the point of keeping them locked up? If longer sentences (longer than whatever they are) have not shown to reduce the crime rate through deterrent, why impose them? Prisons cost money.
  - kriro 10y ago
    I feel like murder (or most major crimes really) is a very special case. I'd prefer a system where the default is a life sentence (a lifetime for a life feels just) but the option to release after n years if relatives/family of the victim agree to it. It's probably very impractical but would appeal most to my personal understanding of justice.
    - CaptSpify 10y ago

by CRidge 10y ago

This doesn't sound unthinkable in other countries. I'm from Norway, where the maximum prison sentence is 21 years, with a third of that often being deducted for good behavior, leaving 14 years.

martijn_himself 10y ago

Agreed! That will probably generate a lot of debate when Breivik comes up for release.

Broken_Hippo 10y ago
I live in Norway, though not Norwegian. From what I can tell it already generates a lot of debate. The sentencing seems to generate debate when someone does any sort of heinous crime. At the same time, folks seem rather proud of the system itself. And I think folks should be. I'm American, the land of petty imprisonments and punishments lasting long after prison time is served. The system here seems to produce much better outcomes for both the people imprisoned and the community around them.
- martijn_himself 10y ago
  The least proud people will probably be the families of victims- and they matter the most. I agree there is a balance to be struck, the American system seems to be the other extreme.
  - bahjoite 10y ago
    > The least proud people will probably be the families of victims- and they matter the most Why do the families of victims matter the most? Does not every person matter equally?
    - lisivka 10y ago
      Did you hear about vendeta?
  - continuational 10y ago
    I'm sure the families of the victims would vastly prefer not to be in this situation in the first place, over getting some petty revenge. That's why the priority must be to bring down the overall number of vitims.

charlesdm 10y ago

Should a killer get released after 14 years though, after "good behavior"? If we're talking about premeditated murder, you can be pretty sure you're dealing with an individual who doesn't have good behavior. Second, 14 (or 21) years for murder, really? A life isn't worth a lot anymore these days..

gpvos 10y ago
In the Netherlands, 20 years (with early release after 13-14 years) used to be the maximum sentence, apart from life sentence, which actually used to be really for life. Parole is possible, but seldom used; release for good behaviour (after a certain minimum number of years) was not possible at all. The European Court for Human Rights actually recently forced us to implement an early release possibility. I think a few years ago we also got a 30 year option (with early release after 20), because judges weren't willing to impose a life sentence due to the aforementioned reason. Also, 14/21 years is about 20-25% of one's life. I think that's quite a lot, really.
ordinary 10y ago
Prison sentences in the Netherlands for aren't imposed as punishment alone, not even mostly. They are primarily tools of prevention (including the prevention of recidivism). If a convicted criminal is no longer considered to be a threat to society what's the point of keeping them locked up? If longer sentences (longer than whatever they are) have not shown to reduce the crime rate through deterrent, why impose them? Prisons cost money.
- kriro 10y ago
  I feel like murder (or most major crimes really) is a very special case. I'd prefer a system where the default is a life sentence (a lifetime for a life feels just) but the option to release after n years if relatives/family of the victim agree to it. It's probably very impractical but would appeal most to my personal understanding of justice.
  - CaptSpify 10y ago