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"The issue of Islam" pretty much says it all right there. Reducing 1.6 billion people and 57 countries around the world down to a few youtube clips that agree w

"The issue of Islam" pretty much says it all right there. Reducing 1.6 billion people and 57 countries around the world down to a few youtube clips that agree with your priors is what I'm going to politely describe as "an interesting worldview". Here's your flag.

tartuffe78 10y ago
This dismissive attitude doesn't help bring people over to your point of view.
- namecast 10y ago
  If you think that a reasoned, nuanced argument is going to bring this guy over to my point of view - that view being that reducing 1.6 billion people spread across 57 countries down to a couple of Sam Harris youtube clips is silly - I'll have to disagree. Also: why on earth would you think that?
  - sbmassey 10y ago
    A lot of anti-Islamism is not based on youtube clips, but on direct observation of what happens when Muslims take over areas and make them their own.
    - komali2 10y ago
      What about when Christians do it? Usually results in a viscous slave trade (Africa and the Caribbean) or genocide (colonization of North and Central America). One side claims there is something fundamentally wrong with the religion of Islam and points to passages in the Quran. That side should, then, also note the fundamental problems with most major religions and point to passages in the Bible (old and new testament), the book of mormon, and other holy texts. But this side does not do that. That indicates to the other side that this is not a logical argument based on genuine fear of a hostile culture, but merely a race/religion war in different clothing (christians fearing muslims).
    - namecast 10y ago
      I'll give you credit, you didn't even try to dress this up with anecdata. Thank you for your transparency.
  - tmptmp 10y ago
    I have had a reasoned and nuanced argument with some other guy on the topic of Islam the other day on HN. It's here FYI [1]. Once again, I am not reducing all Muslims to Islamists, so your argument fails. In fact, you are trying to reduce any criticism of Islam (the ideology/religion) as attack on Muslims worldwide. This same scare tactic is used by pseudo-liberals who wish to suppress any criticism of Islam in other public spheres too. I am opposing the ideology of Islam and I do oppose other religious ideologies too. I am not a Christian. I have left all organized religions back long ago. Sam Harris also is not reducing all Muslims to some thing. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12486652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12486652 [edit]: point about reducing
    - namecast 10y ago
      No. I am pointing out that your "criticisms" are conveniently conflated, totally reductive, and divorced from any objective reality. You're doing all the reducing. Re-read your own words. Or as much as are your own, as you seem to have done some copy-and-pasting. Or? Let's try this a different way: have you ever even attempted to identify what your "issue with Islam" is? You don't seem to have any single articulable criticism or complaint besides "the others are comin', see this scary video!". Have you even thought farther than that? Did you not feel the need to? See, here's my take: I think you've invented a neat little alternate reality for yourself where you virtue signal your love for the western liberal tradition by valiantly fighting against the Other - one you imagine and encounter only online and never in real life - and now you're full on radicalized by filter-bubble friendly Youtube clips and rare Reddit pepes, imagining the looming Sharia monsters that are a comin'. I think this because, well, you've said as much, pretty explicitly, in your profile on this board. That's sad, and worrying, and I don't want you to think that it's normal or that you're engaged in some sort of normal debate. Why do you need an Other? Have you asked yourself that? It's clear that you do - but why?
      - tmptmp 10y ago
        >>Let's try this a different way: have you ever even attempted to identify what your "issue with Islam" is? My issue with Islam is its ideology and its doctrine. It's very similar to my issue with Nazism and white supremacist ideology like KKK. Do we think, that when someone criticizes Nazism/KKK are they reducing all German/white people to some bad thing? No. It's very similar when it comes to Islam too. I criticize Islam. I criticize Islam's pedophile, rapist and thuggish prophet Muhammad. I criticize Islam's treatment of women and kaafirs (disbelievers). I criticize Islam's barbaric misogynist doctrines. >> You don't seem to have any single articulable criticism or complaint besides "the others are comin', see this scary video!". Have you even thought farther than that? Did you not feel the need to? I gave links to those videos as a starting point for the western world. But I do not base my criticism on these videos. I do base my criticism of Islam on the very foundational scriptures of Islam called Quran and Hadiths. Very similar how I criticize the Nazi ideology based on Mein Kampf. You may wish to look into those scriptures to educate yourself about the vicious ideology of Islam.
tmptmp 10y ago
I wish to make it clear that I am not against Muslim people. But I am against the vicious and barbaric ideology of Islam. Many Muslims (especially Muslim women) are the foremost victims of Islam. So, please do not confuse Islam as an ideology with Muslims as people. Similar thing applies to Christianity and other religions too. The Western world has been so successful on various fronts (especially on the modern, liberal and progressive cultural front) essentially because they defeated and discarded the barbaric Christianity by what we now call "separation of Church and state". But Islamists (Muslims who wish/strive to bring Islam as ruler in the world) are trying to bring Sharia in the western world and the liberals here are quite dishonest about it.
- namecast 10y ago
  > But Islamists (Muslims who wish/strive to bring Islam as ruler in the world) are trying to bring Sharia in the western world a This is a fantasy that is born out of spending too much time on messageboards and not enough in reality. I get that you think that creeping sharia is on the horizon; go see a doctor about your anxiety issues, is my advice, because that statement is so far from reality that I can't imagine you'd take any other advice I'd give.
  - tmptmp 10y ago
    >>This is a fantasy that is born out of spending too much time on messageboards and not enough in reality. Hope this [1] helps you see some reality. It seems UK has already allowed the barbaric and inhumane Sharia to exist there. So, that's not at all fantasy. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DsG9yQrdD4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DsG9yQrdD4
    - namecast 10y ago
      Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization We can keep doing this all day. I urge you to learn to experience reality outside of Youtube clips.
- deleted 10y ago

tartuffe78 10y ago

This dismissive attitude doesn't help bring people over to your point of view.

namecast 10y ago
If you think that a reasoned, nuanced argument is going to bring this guy over to my point of view - that view being that reducing 1.6 billion people spread across 57 countries down to a couple of Sam Harris youtube clips is silly - I'll have to disagree. Also: why on earth would you think that?
- sbmassey 10y ago
  A lot of anti-Islamism is not based on youtube clips, but on direct observation of what happens when Muslims take over areas and make them their own.
  - komali2 10y ago
    What about when Christians do it? Usually results in a viscous slave trade (Africa and the Caribbean) or genocide (colonization of North and Central America). One side claims there is something fundamentally wrong with the religion of Islam and points to passages in the Quran. That side should, then, also note the fundamental problems with most major religions and point to passages in the Bible (old and new testament), the book of mormon, and other holy texts. But this side does not do that. That indicates to the other side that this is not a logical argument based on genuine fear of a hostile culture, but merely a race/religion war in different clothing (christians fearing muslims).
  - namecast 10y ago
    I'll give you credit, you didn't even try to dress this up with anecdata. Thank you for your transparency.
- tmptmp 10y ago
  I have had a reasoned and nuanced argument with some other guy on the topic of Islam the other day on HN. It's here FYI [1]. Once again, I am not reducing all Muslims to Islamists, so your argument fails. In fact, you are trying to reduce any criticism of Islam (the ideology/religion) as attack on Muslims worldwide. This same scare tactic is used by pseudo-liberals who wish to suppress any criticism of Islam in other public spheres too. I am opposing the ideology of Islam and I do oppose other religious ideologies too. I am not a Christian. I have left all organized religions back long ago. Sam Harris also is not reducing all Muslims to some thing. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12486652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12486652 [edit]: point about reducing
  - namecast 10y ago
    No. I am pointing out that your "criticisms" are conveniently conflated, totally reductive, and divorced from any objective reality. You're doing all the reducing. Re-read your own words. Or as much as are your own, as you seem to have done some copy-and-pasting. Or? Let's try this a different way: have you ever even attempted to identify what your "issue with Islam" is? You don't seem to have any single articulable criticism or complaint besides "the others are comin', see this scary video!". Have you even thought farther than that? Did you not feel the need to? See, here's my take: I think you've invented a neat little alternate reality for yourself where you virtue signal your love for the western liberal tradition by valiantly fighting against the Other - one you imagine and encounter only online and never in real life - and now you're full on radicalized by filter-bubble friendly Youtube clips and rare Reddit pepes, imagining the looming Sharia monsters that are a comin'. I think this because, well, you've said as much, pretty explicitly, in your profile on this board. That's sad, and worrying, and I don't want you to think that it's normal or that you're engaged in some sort of normal debate. Why do you need an Other? Have you asked yourself that? It's clear that you do - but why?
    - tmptmp 10y ago
      >>Let's try this a different way: have you ever even attempted to identify what your "issue with Islam" is? My issue with Islam is its ideology and its doctrine. It's very similar to my issue with Nazism and white supremacist ideology like KKK. Do we think, that when someone criticizes Nazism/KKK are they reducing all German/white people to some bad thing? No. It's very similar when it comes to Islam too. I criticize Islam. I criticize Islam's pedophile, rapist and thuggish prophet Muhammad. I criticize Islam's treatment of women and kaafirs (disbelievers). I criticize Islam's barbaric misogynist doctrines. >> You don't seem to have any single articulable criticism or complaint besides "the others are comin', see this scary video!". Have you even thought farther than that? Did you not feel the need to? I gave links to those videos as a starting point for the western world. But I do not base my criticism on these videos. I do base my criticism of Islam on the very foundational scriptures of Islam called Quran and Hadiths. Very similar how I criticize the Nazi ideology based on Mein Kampf. You may wish to look into those scriptures to educate yourself about the vicious ideology of Islam.

tmptmp 10y ago

I wish to make it clear that I am not against Muslim people. But I am against the vicious and barbaric ideology of Islam. Many Muslims (especially Muslim women) are the foremost victims of Islam. So, please do not confuse Islam as an ideology with Muslims as people. Similar thing applies to Christianity and other religions too. The Western world has been so successful on various fronts (especially on the modern, liberal and progressive cultural front) essentially because they defeated and discarded the barbaric Christianity by what we now call "separation of Church and state". But Islamists (Muslims who wish/strive to bring Islam as ruler in the world) are trying to bring Sharia in the western world and the liberals here are quite dishonest about it.

namecast 10y ago
> But Islamists (Muslims who wish/strive to bring Islam as ruler in the world) are trying to bring Sharia in the western world a This is a fantasy that is born out of spending too much time on messageboards and not enough in reality. I get that you think that creeping sharia is on the horizon; go see a doctor about your anxiety issues, is my advice, because that statement is so far from reality that I can't imagine you'd take any other advice I'd give.
- tmptmp 10y ago
  >>This is a fantasy that is born out of spending too much time on messageboards and not enough in reality. Hope this [1] helps you see some reality. It seems UK has already allowed the barbaric and inhumane Sharia to exist there. So, that's not at all fantasy. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DsG9yQrdD4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DsG9yQrdD4
  - namecast 10y ago
    Here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization We can keep doing this all day. I urge you to learn to experience reality outside of Youtube clips.
deleted 10y ago