7 ms·

The idea of colonizing another planets is so surreal it makes me wish I would live another 100 years. Having mars as our launch pad, I wonder where we could go

by dfar1 10y ago

The idea of colonizing another planets is so surreal it makes me wish I would live another 100 years. Having mars as our launch pad, I wonder where we could go from there.

myowncrapulence 10y ago
I'm sure there was someone in 1492 saying the same thing about America. The grass is always greener.
- wyager 10y ago
  I mean, they were right. Quality of life improved for the European colonizing nations. Not so much for the natives, but presumably we're not going to run into anyone already on mars.
- edblarney 10y ago
  Living in North America is not that-that different from living in Europe. There is no 'green grass' on Mars, literally or metaphorically. There isn't even any 'air'.
  - myowncrapulence 10y ago
    He was talking about his personal perception of the future not the technicalities of existence. Jesus the level of poindexter in even philosophical pleasantries is suffocating on HN.
wyager 10y ago
Strictly speaking, it should be possible for humans to go interstellar using current technology. Practically speaking, it's not, due to the partial nuclear test ban treaty. Here's a good start to that Wikipedia hole: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propu...
- maverick_iceman 10y ago
  Ah, Project Orion! My favorite example of revolutionary technology that got banned for political reasons.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- SixSigma 10y ago
  What about when Mars declares independence from Earth and develops nuclear capability ?
  - qbrass 10y ago
    Earth's politicians scapegoat the Martians for being the cause of all their problems, then strike first once they discover them working on nukes.
- martey 10y ago
  Most of that article deals with interplanetary travel. The only reference to interstellar travel is in the "Theoretical Applications" section. If you look at the chart in that section, you will note that the two theoretical spacecraft are using 300 thousand or 30 million bombs. This is a problem, since estimates of current worldwide nuclear weapon stockpiles range between 10 to 15 thousand. I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_pulse_propulsion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_pulse_propulsion is a better article, since it talks about a variety of theoretical spacecraft. You'll note that almost every single application uses a unmanned craft in order to reduce mass and keep travel times down to about a century. Charles Stross (cstross) has written on his blog about the difficulties of human interstellar travel multiple times: - http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the_high_frontier_redux.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the_high... - http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/11/the_myth_of_the_starship.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/11/the_myth... He also has written about the difficulties of radiation shielding on interstellar travel: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2016/08/san-trombone-exoplanet-reality.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2016/08/san-trom... > "Anyway, the point I'd like you to take away from this is that while it's really hard to say "sending an interstellar probe is absolutely impossible", the smart money says that it's extremely difficult to do it using any technology currently existing or in development. We'd need a whole raft of breathroughs, including radiation shielding techniques to kick the interstellar medium out of the way of the probe as well as some sort of beam propulsion system and then some way of getting data back home across interstellar distances ... and that's for a flyby mission like New Horizons that would take not significantly less than a human lifetime to get there."
edblarney 10y ago
Living on Mars = living inside a crapped space your entire life and never being able to breathe fresh air, or take a walk outside. Maybe in 1000 years Mars will be nice. I think until then - nice for a short visit. Living in a box would get tiring very, very quickly.
- artmageddon 10y ago
  > Maybe in 1000 years Mars will be nice. Wouldn't terraforming take much, much longer than that? Assuming it were possible(which doesn't seem possible due to lack of a magnetic field, as another commenter pointed out)
  - NickBusey 10y ago
    Don't need to terraform the whole planet just to have nice spaces to go for a walk in 'the forest'. I'd imagine a football stadium sized space could fit that purpose pretty well, at least for starters.
  - nbadg 10y ago
    Atmosphere stripping due to solar wind is a natural process that takes millions of years. Atmospheric production is a deliberate process limited only by available energy and raw materials. And, of course, the economics. But the point remains: you absolutely can densify Mars' atmosphere, and you won't have to worry much about it until you get to the point where you start running out of raw material to replace the very slow loss. My favorite idea to re-liquify the Martian core is to move Ceres into orbit around Mars. It'd take a very long time to do it, but you've got millions of years. But the point is, in the meantime, having a dense enough Martian atmosphere to walk around with just a gas mask is certainly attainable in a lifetime, so long as you have enough energy production to do it.
    - lxmorj 10y ago
      It might not take that long given the right tech. You'd need a legit fusion reactor, and enough material to build an long mass ejector and start shooting 0.01c ice pellets into the outer solar system, driving the rest of Ceres toward Mars. The same mass ejectors could be tuned to bombard Mars with ice at a much lower speed later, if needed for terraforming.
sliken 10y ago
Assuming mars has the materials needed it could become quite the space hub. Seems hard near the absolute limit to build a space elevator on earth. But with less atmosphere, less gravity, and a smaller planet an elevator (and dramatically cheaper access to space) could be quite useful.

by dfar1 10y ago

The idea of colonizing another planets is so surreal it makes me wish I would live another 100 years. Having mars as our launch pad, I wonder where we could go from there.

myowncrapulence 10y ago

I'm sure there was someone in 1492 saying the same thing about America. The grass is always greener.

wyager 10y ago
I mean, they were right. Quality of life improved for the European colonizing nations. Not so much for the natives, but presumably we're not going to run into anyone already on mars.
edblarney 10y ago
Living in North America is not that-that different from living in Europe. There is no 'green grass' on Mars, literally or metaphorically. There isn't even any 'air'.
- myowncrapulence 10y ago
  He was talking about his personal perception of the future not the technicalities of existence. Jesus the level of poindexter in even philosophical pleasantries is suffocating on HN.

wyager 10y ago

Strictly speaking, it should be possible for humans to go interstellar using current technology. Practically speaking, it's not, due to the partial nuclear test ban treaty. Here's a good start to that Wikipedia hole: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propulsion) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Orion_(nuclear_propu...

maverick_iceman 10y ago
Ah, Project Orion! My favorite example of revolutionary technology that got banned for political reasons.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
SixSigma 10y ago
What about when Mars declares independence from Earth and develops nuclear capability ?
- qbrass 10y ago
  Earth's politicians scapegoat the Martians for being the cause of all their problems, then strike first once they discover them working on nukes.
martey 10y ago
Most of that article deals with interplanetary travel. The only reference to interstellar travel is in the "Theoretical Applications" section. If you look at the chart in that section, you will note that the two theoretical spacecraft are using 300 thousand or 30 million bombs. This is a problem, since estimates of current worldwide nuclear weapon stockpiles range between 10 to 15 thousand. I think https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_pulse_propulsion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_pulse_propulsion is a better article, since it talks about a variety of theoretical spacecraft. You'll note that almost every single application uses a unmanned craft in order to reduce mass and keep travel times down to about a century. Charles Stross (cstross) has written on his blog about the difficulties of human interstellar travel multiple times: - http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the_high_frontier_redux.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2007/06/the_high... - http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/11/the_myth_of_the_starship.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/11/the_myth... He also has written about the difficulties of radiation shielding on interstellar travel: http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2016/08/san-trombone-exoplanet-reality.html http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2016/08/san-trom... > "Anyway, the point I'd like you to take away from this is that while it's really hard to say "sending an interstellar probe is absolutely impossible", the smart money says that it's extremely difficult to do it using any technology currently existing or in development. We'd need a whole raft of breathroughs, including radiation shielding techniques to kick the interstellar medium out of the way of the probe as well as some sort of beam propulsion system and then some way of getting data back home across interstellar distances ... and that's for a flyby mission like New Horizons that would take not significantly less than a human lifetime to get there."

edblarney 10y ago

Living on Mars = living inside a crapped space your entire life and never being able to breathe fresh air, or take a walk outside. Maybe in 1000 years Mars will be nice. I think until then - nice for a short visit. Living in a box would get tiring very, very quickly.

artmageddon 10y ago
> Maybe in 1000 years Mars will be nice. Wouldn't terraforming take much, much longer than that? Assuming it were possible(which doesn't seem possible due to lack of a magnetic field, as another commenter pointed out)
- NickBusey 10y ago
  Don't need to terraform the whole planet just to have nice spaces to go for a walk in 'the forest'. I'd imagine a football stadium sized space could fit that purpose pretty well, at least for starters.
- nbadg 10y ago
  Atmosphere stripping due to solar wind is a natural process that takes millions of years. Atmospheric production is a deliberate process limited only by available energy and raw materials. And, of course, the economics. But the point remains: you absolutely can densify Mars' atmosphere, and you won't have to worry much about it until you get to the point where you start running out of raw material to replace the very slow loss. My favorite idea to re-liquify the Martian core is to move Ceres into orbit around Mars. It'd take a very long time to do it, but you've got millions of years. But the point is, in the meantime, having a dense enough Martian atmosphere to walk around with just a gas mask is certainly attainable in a lifetime, so long as you have enough energy production to do it.
  - lxmorj 10y ago
    It might not take that long given the right tech. You'd need a legit fusion reactor, and enough material to build an long mass ejector and start shooting 0.01c ice pellets into the outer solar system, driving the rest of Ceres toward Mars. The same mass ejectors could be tuned to bombard Mars with ice at a much lower speed later, if needed for terraforming.

sliken 10y ago

Assuming mars has the materials needed it could become quite the space hub. Seems hard near the absolute limit to build a space elevator on earth. But with less atmosphere, less gravity, and a smaller planet an elevator (and dramatically cheaper access to space) could be quite useful.