9 ms·

I don't see any statistics in his comment. I actually don't see any supporting info at all. All I see is wild conjecture. If he did go looking for statistics,

I don't see any statistics in his comment. I actually don't see any supporting info at all. All I see is wild conjecture. If he did go looking for statistics, he would find that the effect he describes is better explained by the expanding lower class in america, regardless of race. http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/10/07/sat-scores-and-income-inequality-how-wealthier-kids-rank-higher/ http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/10/07/sat-scores-and-inc...

jomamaxx 10y ago
Ha ha. You have be kidding. It's widely known that Asian American and European American students outscore Latino and African American students. Nobody would contend that. For you to indicate that there is a very specific issue i.e. 'poverty' that is the 'driving factor' is wildly speculative and outlandish - a fetish of your ideology - and and the 'impetus' is upon you to prove it one way or another. My presumption of 'ethnicity' is much better because it would include 'average income' as a natural outcome of an ethnic groups situation regarding education, racism, poverty etc.. And FYI - 'average income' would be a function of ethnic attitudes overall. Nobody would deny that 'income' has some effect on test scores - but my friend - you have to grasp the obvious reality that cultures who don't value 'education' will have significantly lower incomes, and more likely to be in poverty. 'Poverty' is the result of bad education, as much as the cause. If you've travelled the world then you know how crazy different people are. Many of those differences will yield different attitudes to school, to homework, to respect for authority, to criminality, to family etc.. All of those things will affect educational and life outcomes. By the way - here is PISA scoring across national groups (breakdown for USA students): http://web.archive.org/web/20111211103448im_/http://www.vdare.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fullsize/images/James_Fulford/121910_ss001c.png http://web.archive.org/web/20111211103448im_/http://www.vdar... Is it 'racist' to say that Sub Saharan Africa is a very, very different place than North Africa / Maghreb? They are like Venus and Mars they are so different. And it's not just 'income' or 'the weather'. They are entirely different cultures. The world is very diverse. Different values = different behaviours = different outcomes.
- dang 10y ago
  > Ha ha. You have be kidding. It's not ok to comment like this here. Several of your recent posts have crossed the line into incivility. Addressing people as "buddy", telling them about the "fetish of [their] ideology", etc.: all this is patronizing and rude. Please don't do any more of it on Hacker News. If you're going to engage in difficult topics, you have a responsibility to do so with extra respect, not less.
  - jomamaxx 10y ago
    Uhm, no. My comments were reasonable and thoughtful - if borderline controversial - and yet it was directly ad-hominem to call me 'racist' and the comments 'wildly speculative'. I call you 'Buddy'? Someone (you?) called me 'racist'. Which is more offensive in reasonable discussion? 'Buddy' is a colloquialism, it's not offensive or attacking. At the same time you offer no insight, rebuttal or points of your own. You're attacking people and chiding them 'not to speak anymore' - while I have no problem with any of the topical discussion. Your attempt to shut down the discussion while not offering countervailing arguments to is exactly the antithesis of HN, in my opinion. So if you have some relevant comments about education and potentially relevant factors, however speculative - do so. I'd suggest adding to the discussion instead of trolling and attacking. This is not a 'safe space' wherein normal ideas are deemed unspeakable because someone, somewhere, might feel uncomfortable.

jomamaxx 10y ago

Ha ha. You have be kidding. It's widely known that Asian American and European American students outscore Latino and African American students. Nobody would contend that. For you to indicate that there is a very specific issue i.e. 'poverty' that is the 'driving factor' is wildly speculative and outlandish - a fetish of your ideology - and and the 'impetus' is upon you to prove it one way or another. My presumption of 'ethnicity' is much better because it would include 'average income' as a natural outcome of an ethnic groups situation regarding education, racism, poverty etc.. And FYI - 'average income' would be a function of ethnic attitudes overall. Nobody would deny that 'income' has some effect on test scores - but my friend - you have to grasp the obvious reality that cultures who don't value 'education' will have significantly lower incomes, and more likely to be in poverty. 'Poverty' is the result of bad education, as much as the cause. If you've travelled the world then you know how crazy different people are. Many of those differences will yield different attitudes to school, to homework, to respect for authority, to criminality, to family etc.. All of those things will affect educational and life outcomes. By the way - here is PISA scoring across national groups (breakdown for USA students): http://web.archive.org/web/20111211103448im_/http://www.vdare.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fullsize/images/James_Fulford/121910_ss001c.png http://web.archive.org/web/20111211103448im_/http://www.vdar... Is it 'racist' to say that Sub Saharan Africa is a very, very different place than North Africa / Maghreb? They are like Venus and Mars they are so different. And it's not just 'income' or 'the weather'. They are entirely different cultures. The world is very diverse. Different values = different behaviours = different outcomes.

dang 10y ago
> Ha ha. You have be kidding. It's not ok to comment like this here. Several of your recent posts have crossed the line into incivility. Addressing people as "buddy", telling them about the "fetish of [their] ideology", etc.: all this is patronizing and rude. Please don't do any more of it on Hacker News. If you're going to engage in difficult topics, you have a responsibility to do so with extra respect, not less.
- jomamaxx 10y ago
  Uhm, no. My comments were reasonable and thoughtful - if borderline controversial - and yet it was directly ad-hominem to call me 'racist' and the comments 'wildly speculative'. I call you 'Buddy'? Someone (you?) called me 'racist'. Which is more offensive in reasonable discussion? 'Buddy' is a colloquialism, it's not offensive or attacking. At the same time you offer no insight, rebuttal or points of your own. You're attacking people and chiding them 'not to speak anymore' - while I have no problem with any of the topical discussion. Your attempt to shut down the discussion while not offering countervailing arguments to is exactly the antithesis of HN, in my opinion. So if you have some relevant comments about education and potentially relevant factors, however speculative - do so. I'd suggest adding to the discussion instead of trolling and attacking. This is not a 'safe space' wherein normal ideas are deemed unspeakable because someone, somewhere, might feel uncomfortable.