6 ms·

Serious question: I keep reading about high real unemployment in the U.S. and in Europe. Then 2 paragraphs later I will read something along the lines of how im

Serious question: I keep reading about high real unemployment in the U.S. and in Europe. Then 2 paragraphs later I will read something along the lines of how immigration is great because a large number of workers are needed in U.S. and Europe. Can anyone point me to some well argued work that squares the above 2 sentences? I'm an immigrant to the U.S. myself, so I'm not anti-immigrant per se, it's just that some things have left me scratching my head.

6stringmerc 10y ago
While I don't have the links to provide right away, the "unemployment rate" in the US is around 6%, but to get to that number, a large number of people who haven't had a meaningful job for a long time and have "given up looking for work" are simply not counted as part of the labor force. Thus, in the US, labor force participation rates are at an all time low - directly in contrast to the low unemployment rate talked about. A large number of workers are needed in the US to do low-wage tasks - pretty much so their employer can profit from their labor - and some of the issue is that illegal immigrants wouldn't be counted as part of the labor force (because they aren't supposed to be here), but in theory, they are displacing the opportunity for Citizens to do those jobs. The issues are more complex than I describe, and they certainly will apply to skilled labor too (ex: nurses to care for an aging population). One of the major contentions is that companies, in reality, post jobs with requirements that are high (10+ years! X, Y, Z skills!) but offer a salary or compensation that is way, way below market value. This means that technically yes, the company can not find a qualified candidate to do the job, because they have targeted people who would be willing to do it for much less just to, well, have an opportunity to get into the US. It is very backwards for the US to be "anti-immigration" as a general concept (it's the foundation of the nation!), so how the arguments get twisted make it hard to figure out in some ways. This explanation is simply my perspective using my observations and stuff I read, so it is not peer reviewed or anything like that!
- hackaflocka 10y ago
  > are simply not counted as part of the labor force Which is why I said "real unemployment." The official rate may be 6% but the real rate may be 20% (if we were to count the people who have given up and are now on welfare).

6stringmerc 10y ago

While I don't have the links to provide right away, the "unemployment rate" in the US is around 6%, but to get to that number, a large number of people who haven't had a meaningful job for a long time and have "given up looking for work" are simply not counted as part of the labor force. Thus, in the US, labor force participation rates are at an all time low - directly in contrast to the low unemployment rate talked about. A large number of workers are needed in the US to do low-wage tasks - pretty much so their employer can profit from their labor - and some of the issue is that illegal immigrants wouldn't be counted as part of the labor force (because they aren't supposed to be here), but in theory, they are displacing the opportunity for Citizens to do those jobs. The issues are more complex than I describe, and they certainly will apply to skilled labor too (ex: nurses to care for an aging population). One of the major contentions is that companies, in reality, post jobs with requirements that are high (10+ years! X, Y, Z skills!) but offer a salary or compensation that is way, way below market value. This means that technically yes, the company can not find a qualified candidate to do the job, because they have targeted people who would be willing to do it for much less just to, well, have an opportunity to get into the US. It is very backwards for the US to be "anti-immigration" as a general concept (it's the foundation of the nation!), so how the arguments get twisted make it hard to figure out in some ways. This explanation is simply my perspective using my observations and stuff I read, so it is not peer reviewed or anything like that!

hackaflocka 10y ago
> are simply not counted as part of the labor force Which is why I said "real unemployment." The official rate may be 6% but the real rate may be 20% (if we were to count the people who have given up and are now on welfare).