5 ms·

Going through the SDK docs, why was a scheme like 'http://localhost:8000::people' http://localhost:8000::people' chosen instead of the plain old 'http://localho

by zphds 10y ago

Going through the SDK docs, why was a scheme like 'http://localhost:8000::people' http://localhost:8000::people' chosen instead of the plain old 'http://localhost:8000/people' http://localhost:8000/people'? Are there any benefits? If yes, curious to know what they are.

2bitencryption 10y ago
Perhaps they were writing so much in Go that they set the '/' key to shortcut to '::'. ...but yeah, I am also curious.
- HammadB 10y ago
  What does :: mean in go?
  - nathancahill 10y ago
    Maybe parent meant := Not sure what :: would be.
    - fizzbatter 10y ago
      Nothing, i believe... in Go, at least.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
bkalman 10y ago
See https://github.com/attic-labs/noms/blob/master/doc/spelling.md https://github.com/attic-labs/noms/blob/master/doc/spelling.... - In this case, we need to be able to address either a database and a dataset. The presence of a :: makes it unambiguous.
- zphds 10y ago
  But isn't `<database>/<dataset>` more or less similar to `<database>::<dataset>`? The only difference is the choice of a delimiter to disambiguate between a database and a dataset. For me, the first scheme is much more familiar.
  - bkalman 10y ago
    Say we did just do <database>/<dataset>. What does the path "http://demo.noms.io/cli-tour/sf-fire-inspections/raw" http://demo.noms.io/cli-tour/sf-fire-inspections/raw" refer to? Is the database "http://demo.noms.io" http://demo.noms.io" and the dataset "cli-tour/sf-fire-inspections/raw"? Is the database "http://demo.noms.io/cli-tour/sf-fire-inspections" http://demo.noms.io/cli-tour/sf-fire-inspections" and the dataset "raw"? In our sample data (see https://github.com/attic-labs/noms/blob/master/doc/cli-tour.md https://github.com/attic-labs/noms/blob/master/doc/cli-tour.... for example) we actually have this exact path, and the database is "http://demo.noms.io/cli-tour" http://demo.noms.io/cli-tour" and the dataset is "sf-fire-inspections/raw". We need the "::". Allowing "/" in a dataset name is very convenient (it's common in git branches). Allowing "/" in database names is essential for URLs.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - hosh 10y ago
      There are issues with using `:` in an URL, if you plan on using the URL in a way that's compatible with the extant software out there. I remember: - I remember the Rails community trying to use `;` which broke Mongrel 1. Mongrel's parser was generated from the RFC. There was a huge flame war about that back in the day. The Rails core team at the time thought that Mongrel should make an exception to a reserved character. (And after all was said and done, it got changed back to `/` for that particular use-case). - When working on IPv6 support about 3 years ago, one of the things I added to an open source Ruby project was IPv6 literals into the URL. This was a case of using `:`. Even though this was defined in the RFC specifying the literal, I found out at that time the Ruby standard library was written in a way that assumes you would never have `:` in the URL other than to delimit the port. I ended up having to do some workarounds for that. That's with Ruby. I wouldn't be surprised if many other extant libraries parsing URLs that might break -- at least not without escaping those characters. See: https://perishablepress.com/stop-using-unsafe-characters-in-urls/ https://perishablepress.com/stop-using-unsafe-characters-in-... You don't NEED ":". You NEED some sort of delimiter that can clearly distinguish between database and dataset; you happen to pick ':' to satisfy that. There might be a different delimiter that works better. The other option is to not pretend that is a URL and call that something else. Post-script: I think this project is a great idea. I'm looking forward to see how it turns out.
user5994461 10y ago
Is that even a valid syntax for a URL? Probably not. Should have thought about compatibility before making up a naming scheme.
aboodman 10y ago
Thanks for the help everyone with this most important aspect of the system ;). To clarify, we don't think of these specs as URLs. The part before the final double-colon is a URL. To parse one, you get the final double colon, and take everything to the left as a URL. There's some info on the syntax here: https://github.com/attic-labs/noms/blob/master/doc/spelling.md#spelling-databases https://github.com/attic-labs/noms/blob/master/doc/spelling.... Though it's not presented as a formal grammar in that doc, our most important criteria for the syntax was: - unambiguousness - interacts well with the shell, since we frequently use these as part of command lines
- zphds 10y ago
  > To clarify, we don't think of these specs as URLs That makes it a lot clearer. :). Looking forward to take noms for a spin soon.
- batbomb 10y ago
  > To clarify, we don't think of these specs as URLs. But everyone else will because you are including the protocol, and at the end of the day, they are a uniform way of identifying a resource, so they are functionally URIs. Otherwise, you should probably either conform to the HTTP(S) protocol spec or makeup your own, e.g. noms+http://dbinstance.noms.foo::database/dataset http://dbinstance.noms.foo::database/dataset SQLAlchemy and most DB URIs are good examples on how to do this. For example, you can connect to a MySQL database instance and give it a default namespace/schema/database. Part of the issue here is the ambiguity between a database, a database instance/server/host, a dataset/table, a catalog/namespace/schema, and what all those words and concepts mean. There's little consensus across fields, because even if computer scientists say "Okay, this is what a dataset actually is", somebody, whether it's a biologist or a physicist, will throw up their arms in protest.

by zphds 10y ago

2bitencryption 10y ago

Perhaps they were writing so much in Go that they set the '/' key to shortcut to '::'. ...but yeah, I am also curious.

HammadB 10y ago
What does :: mean in go?
- nathancahill 10y ago
  Maybe parent meant := Not sure what :: would be.
  - fizzbatter 10y ago
    Nothing, i believe... in Go, at least.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

bkalman 10y ago

See https://github.com/attic-labs/noms/blob/master/doc/spelling.md https://github.com/attic-labs/noms/blob/master/doc/spelling.... - In this case, we need to be able to address either a database and a dataset. The presence of a :: makes it unambiguous.

zphds 10y ago
But isn't `<database>/<dataset>` more or less similar to `<database>::<dataset>`? The only difference is the choice of a delimiter to disambiguate between a database and a dataset. For me, the first scheme is much more familiar.
- bkalman 10y ago
  Say we did just do <database>/<dataset>. What does the path "http://demo.noms.io/cli-tour/sf-fire-inspections/raw" http://demo.noms.io/cli-tour/sf-fire-inspections/raw" refer to? Is the database "http://demo.noms.io" http://demo.noms.io" and the dataset "cli-tour/sf-fire-inspections/raw"? Is the database "http://demo.noms.io/cli-tour/sf-fire-inspections" http://demo.noms.io/cli-tour/sf-fire-inspections" and the dataset "raw"? In our sample data (see https://github.com/attic-labs/noms/blob/master/doc/cli-tour.md https://github.com/attic-labs/noms/blob/master/doc/cli-tour.... for example) we actually have this exact path, and the database is "http://demo.noms.io/cli-tour" http://demo.noms.io/cli-tour" and the dataset is "sf-fire-inspections/raw". We need the "::". Allowing "/" in a dataset name is very convenient (it's common in git branches). Allowing "/" in database names is essential for URLs.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - hosh 10y ago
    There are issues with using `:` in an URL, if you plan on using the URL in a way that's compatible with the extant software out there. I remember: - I remember the Rails community trying to use `;` which broke Mongrel 1. Mongrel's parser was generated from the RFC. There was a huge flame war about that back in the day. The Rails core team at the time thought that Mongrel should make an exception to a reserved character. (And after all was said and done, it got changed back to `/` for that particular use-case). - When working on IPv6 support about 3 years ago, one of the things I added to an open source Ruby project was IPv6 literals into the URL. This was a case of using `:`. Even though this was defined in the RFC specifying the literal, I found out at that time the Ruby standard library was written in a way that assumes you would never have `:` in the URL other than to delimit the port. I ended up having to do some workarounds for that. That's with Ruby. I wouldn't be surprised if many other extant libraries parsing URLs that might break -- at least not without escaping those characters. See: https://perishablepress.com/stop-using-unsafe-characters-in-urls/ https://perishablepress.com/stop-using-unsafe-characters-in-... You don't NEED ":". You NEED some sort of delimiter that can clearly distinguish between database and dataset; you happen to pick ':' to satisfy that. There might be a different delimiter that works better. The other option is to not pretend that is a URL and call that something else. Post-script: I think this project is a great idea. I'm looking forward to see how it turns out.

user5994461 10y ago

Is that even a valid syntax for a URL? Probably not. Should have thought about compatibility before making up a naming scheme.

aboodman 10y ago

Thanks for the help everyone with this most important aspect of the system ;). To clarify, we don't think of these specs as URLs. The part before the final double-colon is a URL. To parse one, you get the final double colon, and take everything to the left as a URL. There's some info on the syntax here: https://github.com/attic-labs/noms/blob/master/doc/spelling.md#spelling-databases https://github.com/attic-labs/noms/blob/master/doc/spelling.... Though it's not presented as a formal grammar in that doc, our most important criteria for the syntax was: - unambiguousness - interacts well with the shell, since we frequently use these as part of command lines

zphds 10y ago
> To clarify, we don't think of these specs as URLs That makes it a lot clearer. :). Looking forward to take noms for a spin soon.
batbomb 10y ago
> To clarify, we don't think of these specs as URLs. But everyone else will because you are including the protocol, and at the end of the day, they are a uniform way of identifying a resource, so they are functionally URIs. Otherwise, you should probably either conform to the HTTP(S) protocol spec or makeup your own, e.g. noms+http://dbinstance.noms.foo::database/dataset http://dbinstance.noms.foo::database/dataset SQLAlchemy and most DB URIs are good examples on how to do this. For example, you can connect to a MySQL database instance and give it a default namespace/schema/database. Part of the issue here is the ambiguity between a database, a database instance/server/host, a dataset/table, a catalog/namespace/schema, and what all those words and concepts mean. There's little consensus across fields, because even if computer scientists say "Okay, this is what a dataset actually is", somebody, whether it's a biologist or a physicist, will throw up their arms in protest.