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Glad to hear improvements to the shell ipython interface, especially up/down arrows on pasted code. The most interesting part of this for me is that IPython 6

Glad to hear improvements to the shell ipython interface, especially up/down arrows on pasted code. The most interesting part of this for me is that IPython 6 will not support Python 2. >Projects such as Matplotlib and SymPy plan to drop support in the next few years, while a few projects like Scikit-Bio are already ahead of us, and should be Python 3 only soon. This was also very surprising for the standard reasons, especially for a library like matplotlib. Glad to find Python moving forward. But what will companies stuck on Python2 do? Will libraries like numpy, matplotlib, and scipy all maintain a Python2 LTS?

mkesper 10y ago
Probably until 2020 when Python 2 finally will be phased out. http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/ http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/
- daveguy 10y ago
  Except Python 2 isn't going to be "phased out". Just support from Guido and company will end. Alternate support will continue on with fully compatible py2 implementations such as PyPy and pyston. "python" will still point to python2 on Linux distributions and Python distributions such as anaconda will still have the established, mature, fully functional python2 suite available.
  - mfisher87 10y ago
    > "python" will still point to python2 on Linux distributions That's already false in many cases for at least a year. Arch and Gentoo come to mind.
    - collinmanderson 10y ago
      Sure, but it's true for both debian/ubuntu and fedora/rhel/centos.
  - njharman 10y ago
    No actually phasing out of Python 2 has already begun. Several libs today are Python 3 only. Many, many more are not going to pay the cost of supporting Python2 and drop it in next few years. Unless you are retiring next couple years or live with head in sand, any new code you write should either by python2-3 compatible (it's not hard at all, do it all day every day) or Python 3 only.
  - collinmanderson 10y ago
    "support from Guido and company will end" - I find it very ironic that Guido's employer will keep supporting py2 (pyston).
jdimov10 10y ago
Python 2 isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Tools and libraries which drop support for Python 2 will suffer and will either revert their decision or be replaced with something else.
- Cyph0n 10y ago
  Found the Python 2 developer folks! Joking aside, Python 3 is the only Python. The only people who should use Python 2 are those supporting legacy codebases, and even they should start migrating.
  - andybak 10y ago
    Tricky one. I've just had to sell my clients on an update from Django < 1.8 as that fell out of it's support period. "Hey folks. I've got to do lots of work that will result in no new visible functionality and I'd like to be paid for it" I did consider slipping a Python 3 upgrade in there at the same time but there are limits to my powers of persuasion. So - Python 3 will have to wait.
    - cuu508 10y ago
      How about car oil changes for an analogy? You could probably drive for several oil change periods without apparent issues, until eventually there would be big issues. Django upgrades are similar, not "that" difficult, and it's a good idea not to fall too far back in versions, running into more and more incompatibilities. Py 2 -> 3 is a bigger one, so maybe like a timing belt change? ;-)
    - jsmeaton 10y ago
      I don't do this kind of work (agency) but I find it strange that ongoing maintenance isn't discussed and priced into the statement of work right from the beginning. Something like 2 days maintenance every 9 months to stay current, or 4 days every 2-3 years to go from LTS to LTS. If a customer doesn't understand why they need to be paying maintenance every x months or years, isn't that your fault for not making that clear in the beginning? Sorry if it seems like I'm picking on you, but I've seen this kind of comment quite a lot, and I've never asked the question before.
wodenokoto 10y ago
Companies stuck on python 2, have known for several years that life-time support was disappearing and will do 1 of 3 things: 1) Get caught by surprise because they aren't planning. 2) Plan and pay the price of upgrading their legacy code. 3) Join an active developed (currently hypothetical) fork of python 2 I think in 2020 we'll see all 3 routes done by several companies. Better get the popcorn ready!
- data_hope 10y ago
  https://github.com/dropbox/pyston https://github.com/dropbox/pyston seems to be option 3
  - sciurus 10y ago
    Or PyPy. It's development is still heavily focused on Python 2 because that's where the corporate sponsorship is.
- zokier 10y ago
  > 3) Join an active developed (currently hypothetical) fork of python 2 RedHat is probably going to keep Python2 on some degree of life-support at least until 2030 or so, just based on a guess that RHEL8 most likely will still have python2, and its support will continue for 10+ years after its release.
- zeroxfe 10y ago
  Also: 4) migrate to other languages, such as Go ... which is not uncommon, and in many cases a pretty good idea.
  - ubernostrum 10y ago
    migrate to other languages, such as Go This depends heavily on the type of work someone is doing. People doing numeric/scientific computing work with Python can't really do this, for example, because there's a distinct lack of other languages with equivalents to the libraries and tooling Python gives them for their work. And that's a chicken/egg feedback loop problem: Go needs the libraries and tools, but in order get them needs people to move, but in order to get people to move needs the libraries/tools, and so on.
afarrell 10y ago
Companies using Numpy and Scipy who need python 2.x support will probably buy a support plan from someone like Continuum Analytics.

mkesper 10y ago

Probably until 2020 when Python 2 finally will be phased out. http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/ http://legacy.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0373/

daveguy 10y ago
Except Python 2 isn't going to be "phased out". Just support from Guido and company will end. Alternate support will continue on with fully compatible py2 implementations such as PyPy and pyston. "python" will still point to python2 on Linux distributions and Python distributions such as anaconda will still have the established, mature, fully functional python2 suite available.
- mfisher87 10y ago
  > "python" will still point to python2 on Linux distributions That's already false in many cases for at least a year. Arch and Gentoo come to mind.
  - collinmanderson 10y ago
    Sure, but it's true for both debian/ubuntu and fedora/rhel/centos.
- njharman 10y ago
  No actually phasing out of Python 2 has already begun. Several libs today are Python 3 only. Many, many more are not going to pay the cost of supporting Python2 and drop it in next few years. Unless you are retiring next couple years or live with head in sand, any new code you write should either by python2-3 compatible (it's not hard at all, do it all day every day) or Python 3 only.
- collinmanderson 10y ago
  "support from Guido and company will end" - I find it very ironic that Guido's employer will keep supporting py2 (pyston).

jdimov10 10y ago

Python 2 isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Tools and libraries which drop support for Python 2 will suffer and will either revert their decision or be replaced with something else.

Cyph0n 10y ago
Found the Python 2 developer folks! Joking aside, Python 3 is the only Python. The only people who should use Python 2 are those supporting legacy codebases, and even they should start migrating.
- andybak 10y ago
  Tricky one. I've just had to sell my clients on an update from Django < 1.8 as that fell out of it's support period. "Hey folks. I've got to do lots of work that will result in no new visible functionality and I'd like to be paid for it" I did consider slipping a Python 3 upgrade in there at the same time but there are limits to my powers of persuasion. So - Python 3 will have to wait.
  - cuu508 10y ago
    How about car oil changes for an analogy? You could probably drive for several oil change periods without apparent issues, until eventually there would be big issues. Django upgrades are similar, not "that" difficult, and it's a good idea not to fall too far back in versions, running into more and more incompatibilities. Py 2 -> 3 is a bigger one, so maybe like a timing belt change? ;-)
  - jsmeaton 10y ago
    I don't do this kind of work (agency) but I find it strange that ongoing maintenance isn't discussed and priced into the statement of work right from the beginning. Something like 2 days maintenance every 9 months to stay current, or 4 days every 2-3 years to go from LTS to LTS. If a customer doesn't understand why they need to be paying maintenance every x months or years, isn't that your fault for not making that clear in the beginning? Sorry if it seems like I'm picking on you, but I've seen this kind of comment quite a lot, and I've never asked the question before.

wodenokoto 10y ago

Companies stuck on python 2, have known for several years that life-time support was disappearing and will do 1 of 3 things: 1) Get caught by surprise because they aren't planning. 2) Plan and pay the price of upgrading their legacy code. 3) Join an active developed (currently hypothetical) fork of python 2 I think in 2020 we'll see all 3 routes done by several companies. Better get the popcorn ready!

data_hope 10y ago
https://github.com/dropbox/pyston https://github.com/dropbox/pyston seems to be option 3
- sciurus 10y ago
  Or PyPy. It's development is still heavily focused on Python 2 because that's where the corporate sponsorship is.
zokier 10y ago
> 3) Join an active developed (currently hypothetical) fork of python 2 RedHat is probably going to keep Python2 on some degree of life-support at least until 2030 or so, just based on a guess that RHEL8 most likely will still have python2, and its support will continue for 10+ years after its release.
zeroxfe 10y ago
Also: 4) migrate to other languages, such as Go ... which is not uncommon, and in many cases a pretty good idea.
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  migrate to other languages, such as Go This depends heavily on the type of work someone is doing. People doing numeric/scientific computing work with Python can't really do this, for example, because there's a distinct lack of other languages with equivalents to the libraries and tooling Python gives them for their work. And that's a chicken/egg feedback loop problem: Go needs the libraries and tools, but in order get them needs people to move, but in order to get people to move needs the libraries/tools, and so on.

afarrell 10y ago

Companies using Numpy and Scipy who need python 2.x support will probably buy a support plan from someone like Continuum Analytics.