6 ms·

> they are known for being violent ones Which imperialist was the non-violent one then? > Of small comfort then, is the fact that the English have abolished s

> they are known for being violent ones Which imperialist was the non-violent one then? > Of small comfort then, is the fact that the English have abolished slavery in 1833. I imagine it was a major comfort to slaves at that time. But you probably know better. > And "the commonwealth", oh my! Oh my, indeed. Perhaps you can name another country, perhaps your own undoubtedly spotless nation, that has over 50 former colonies, comprising two billion people across six continents, happily and willingly belonging to such a commonwealth. Pretty strange thing for them to do, considering all the evil the British Empire committed non-stop, 24/7. > we didn't even touch the mess that the English caused in India The mess of leaving it as the world's largest democracy? (By population, that is. By size it just so happens to be another former colony of the British monsters.) In fact if we make a short list of the most advanced/stable/richest/democratic former colonies in the world, we'll probably find it does not include the likes of Vietnam, Algeria, Congo, Mexico or the Philippines, but does include the likes of the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Hong Kong, India. Funny that. > you think that you are special, well good riddance, and stay out of EU How is it special to be outside of the EU? Most countries in the world are.

Annatar 10y ago
> Which imperialist was the non-violent one then? Well that's the jolly old clinch, isn't it? Every imperialist was violent, and the English are an empire, and as I am both want and compelled to agree with your so astutely observed argument, I'm afraid I have no recourse but to concur with you that the English are violent. Yes, yes, very well put, old chap, I say! > Perhaps you can name another country, perhaps your own > undoubtedly spotless nation, My nation was never an empire, and it protected Europe for hundreds of years from marauders, rapists, murderers and especially from religious fanatics, and amazingly enough continues to do so even today. Not only that, but my nation paid the price of Europe not writing in or speaking Arabic or Turkish for that matter, and with a sizeable portion of her own territory, visible in the country's unique border, unlike any in Europe today. Not even the mighty British empire can claim such a feat. Oh, and while we were bleeding our hearts and bodies out for Europe, the English were sitting on their island, but they didn't come to help until 1914, and then they only came because they saw their own interest in it, and then they made a mess of things... everything that we had fought so hard to preserve across almost six centuries, they have destroyed on the altair of their own short-term interest in the span of a few decades. In one fell swoop, it was the British who decided to sell us into slavery as thanks for protecting Europe. In most recent history, while we were being brutally raped and slaughtered, tortured by being beaten with iron bars, or electrodes and high current put through the testicles of our people, while we cried for help, it was the British who had sided with those who did this to us, while they were doing it, and purposely delayed any action of the European Union while this was taking place. Jolly good, that! And yet, even though we dislike them, and we do not trust them, we bear the English no ill will and will continue to protect Europe as we have always done. That is the ethical and moral high ground which not even the mighty British empire can claim. To subjugate, to murder, to plunder, yes, but not to protect as we will continue to do, even those who have done us wrong. And while my nation isn't spotless, it feels pretty good to be the protector rather than all these other things that the English have wrought upon the world. Yep, life is great. > that has over 50 former colonies, The Sun never sets on the British empire, isn't that how the saying goes? It is not a point to be argued in favor of one's honor, but of one's eternal shame at subjugating, murdering and stealing from others over the span of several centuries. > The mess of leaving it as the world's largest democracy? It's grossly impolite, to the point of not minding one's p's and q's, to imply that the English are somehow deserving for establishment of democracy in India, an honor that history has recorded as going to one Mahatma Gandhi. It would be awful, just horrid, don't you agree, to claim someone else's accomplishment as one's own, wouldn't it? I mean that would strike at the core of the good old proper British values, almost bordering on the waffling, wouldn't it now?
- Chris2048 10y ago
  Given your narrative of English colonialism, pardon me if I don't entirely trust your account of your own countries history...
  - Annatar 10y ago
    Your belief is not crucial to the argument. I do pardon you, of course, please, think nothing of it.
    - dang 10y ago
      Please stop posting uncivil and unsubstantive comments to Hacker News, and no more political rants, please, either.
      - Annatar 10y ago
        The truth is always uncivil; and as for unsubstantive, what I wrote can be easily corroborated by any history book. The English left the EU, and they caused a mess, as usual. They believe that they are special, that EU norms, standards and regulations and laws do not apply or should not apply to them, and you have the nerve to label me uncivil for pointing out that they did this en masse before in history? By the by, the parent topic is "UK votes to leave EU" and wouldn't you know it, that is a purely political subject.
        tomhoward 10y ago
        HN is not a place for heated, partisan political arguments. Not now, not ever, no matter the topic. True, this is a political topic. As such it would normally be killed, but occasionally exceptions are made in cases like this where an event is of unusual historical or cultural significance. But commenters aren't suddenly given license to engage in boorish behaviour just because a political topic is given a rare green light. Indeed the reverse should be the case; extra effort should be made to contribute respectfully and substantively in discussions over topics like this. Lest the mods deem that this community is incapable of discussing any political topic with intelligence, and that all political topics should be banned in future, no matter how significant. Plenty of other places on the internet welcome heated, partisan political arguing. There's no need to do it here.
kamaal 10y ago
As an Indian I find this beyond offensive. >>The mess of leaving it as the world's largest democracy? The mess of Bengal Famine, killing over 4 million people : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 The mess of massacres like this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre The mess of partition of India : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India I could really go on. But seriously the British have the temerity to go around the world tell others how they screwing India was for India's own good?
- hartpuff 10y ago
  So Britain "screwed" India (how anyone in their right mind can argue that partition of India was worse than inevitable and catastrophic civil war is beyond me) and yet somehow, despite Britain, India managed to establish democracy (coincidentally the same model as Britain's), a legal system (coincidentally the same model as Britain's), infrastructure (British made roads, railways and bridges), universities, the banning of barbaric Indian practices like suttee and female infanticide, the suppression of thugs, the establishment of major important cities like Bombay (Mumbai) and Calcutta (Kolkata)... I could really go on too. But seriously Indians have the temerity to think all that happened despite Britain, and not because of Britain? And presumably when other British colonies developed similar infrastructure, stability, prosperity through trade, rule of law and/or democratic principles, it was also just mere coincidence; while most/all colonies of other European countries and the USA notably ended up as virtual failed states and/or dictatorships. Yeah, what have the British ever done for us?

Annatar 10y ago

> Which imperialist was the non-violent one then? Well that's the jolly old clinch, isn't it? Every imperialist was violent, and the English are an empire, and as I am both want and compelled to agree with your so astutely observed argument, I'm afraid I have no recourse but to concur with you that the English are violent. Yes, yes, very well put, old chap, I say! > Perhaps you can name another country, perhaps your own > undoubtedly spotless nation, My nation was never an empire, and it protected Europe for hundreds of years from marauders, rapists, murderers and especially from religious fanatics, and amazingly enough continues to do so even today. Not only that, but my nation paid the price of Europe not writing in or speaking Arabic or Turkish for that matter, and with a sizeable portion of her own territory, visible in the country's unique border, unlike any in Europe today. Not even the mighty British empire can claim such a feat. Oh, and while we were bleeding our hearts and bodies out for Europe, the English were sitting on their island, but they didn't come to help until 1914, and then they only came because they saw their own interest in it, and then they made a mess of things... everything that we had fought so hard to preserve across almost six centuries, they have destroyed on the altair of their own short-term interest in the span of a few decades. In one fell swoop, it was the British who decided to sell us into slavery as thanks for protecting Europe. In most recent history, while we were being brutally raped and slaughtered, tortured by being beaten with iron bars, or electrodes and high current put through the testicles of our people, while we cried for help, it was the British who had sided with those who did this to us, while they were doing it, and purposely delayed any action of the European Union while this was taking place. Jolly good, that! And yet, even though we dislike them, and we do not trust them, we bear the English no ill will and will continue to protect Europe as we have always done. That is the ethical and moral high ground which not even the mighty British empire can claim. To subjugate, to murder, to plunder, yes, but not to protect as we will continue to do, even those who have done us wrong. And while my nation isn't spotless, it feels pretty good to be the protector rather than all these other things that the English have wrought upon the world. Yep, life is great. > that has over 50 former colonies, The Sun never sets on the British empire, isn't that how the saying goes? It is not a point to be argued in favor of one's honor, but of one's eternal shame at subjugating, murdering and stealing from others over the span of several centuries. > The mess of leaving it as the world's largest democracy? It's grossly impolite, to the point of not minding one's p's and q's, to imply that the English are somehow deserving for establishment of democracy in India, an honor that history has recorded as going to one Mahatma Gandhi. It would be awful, just horrid, don't you agree, to claim someone else's accomplishment as one's own, wouldn't it? I mean that would strike at the core of the good old proper British values, almost bordering on the waffling, wouldn't it now?

Chris2048 10y ago
Given your narrative of English colonialism, pardon me if I don't entirely trust your account of your own countries history...
- Annatar 10y ago
  Your belief is not crucial to the argument. I do pardon you, of course, please, think nothing of it.
  - dang 10y ago
    Please stop posting uncivil and unsubstantive comments to Hacker News, and no more political rants, please, either.
    - Annatar 10y ago
      The truth is always uncivil; and as for unsubstantive, what I wrote can be easily corroborated by any history book. The English left the EU, and they caused a mess, as usual. They believe that they are special, that EU norms, standards and regulations and laws do not apply or should not apply to them, and you have the nerve to label me uncivil for pointing out that they did this en masse before in history? By the by, the parent topic is "UK votes to leave EU" and wouldn't you know it, that is a purely political subject.
      - tomhoward 10y ago
        HN is not a place for heated, partisan political arguments. Not now, not ever, no matter the topic. True, this is a political topic. As such it would normally be killed, but occasionally exceptions are made in cases like this where an event is of unusual historical or cultural significance. But commenters aren't suddenly given license to engage in boorish behaviour just because a political topic is given a rare green light. Indeed the reverse should be the case; extra effort should be made to contribute respectfully and substantively in discussions over topics like this. Lest the mods deem that this community is incapable of discussing any political topic with intelligence, and that all political topics should be banned in future, no matter how significant. Plenty of other places on the internet welcome heated, partisan political arguing. There's no need to do it here.

kamaal 10y ago

As an Indian I find this beyond offensive. >>The mess of leaving it as the world's largest democracy? The mess of Bengal Famine, killing over 4 million people : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943 The mess of massacres like this : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jallianwala_Bagh_massacre The mess of partition of India : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India I could really go on. But seriously the British have the temerity to go around the world tell others how they screwing India was for India's own good?

hartpuff 10y ago
So Britain "screwed" India (how anyone in their right mind can argue that partition of India was worse than inevitable and catastrophic civil war is beyond me) and yet somehow, despite Britain, India managed to establish democracy (coincidentally the same model as Britain's), a legal system (coincidentally the same model as Britain's), infrastructure (British made roads, railways and bridges), universities, the banning of barbaric Indian practices like suttee and female infanticide, the suppression of thugs, the establishment of major important cities like Bombay (Mumbai) and Calcutta (Kolkata)... I could really go on too. But seriously Indians have the temerity to think all that happened despite Britain, and not because of Britain? And presumably when other British colonies developed similar infrastructure, stability, prosperity through trade, rule of law and/or democratic principles, it was also just mere coincidence; while most/all colonies of other European countries and the USA notably ended up as virtual failed states and/or dictatorships. Yeah, what have the British ever done for us?