7 ms·

I ranted about this on my blog whilst drunk, and then went off in a tangent, you can find it at jameshalsall.co.uk, 2nd post. This really makes me uncomfortabl

by jaitsu 10y ago

I ranted about this on my blog whilst drunk, and then went off in a tangent, you can find it at jameshalsall.co.uk, 2nd post. This really makes me uncomfortable, standards are there for a reason, you don't just ignore them because you don't agree with them.

Karunamon 10y ago
And sometimes the standard is wrong. The page telling the browser that the user isn't allowed to auto fill a form puts too much control in the hand of the page.
- DanBC 10y ago
  Sure. Fix the standard, don't just make shit up. Maybe the standards process is broken, in which case that's something that needs fixing. I can't see why the four browser makers can't create their own browser standards.
  - dreamdu5t 10y ago
    Standards are just made-up shit. Most of them are formalized descriptions of what people were already doing before the standard existed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but no browsers have formally committed to adhering to the standards.
    - wang_li 10y ago
      > Correct me if I'm wrong, but no browsers have formally committed to adhering to the standards. Don't know about that, but they certainly like to brag about the size of their standards compliance penis.
  - lallysingh 10y ago
    You often need in-the-field experience with a proposed change before it's considered.
  - matt_kantor 10y ago
    That sounds like what they're doing. > We don't just ignore the autocomplete attribute, however. In the WHATWG standard, we defined a series of new autocomplete values that developers can use to better inform the browser about what a particular field is, and we encourage developers to use those types. [2] > [2] https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/forms.html#autofill https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/forms.html#autofill In my opinion the new spec is overly-complicated and will probably not be followed by web developers, but on the other hand a binary "on"/"off" choice was way too blunt of an instrument. I don't know how the authors of the original autocomplete spec didn't see this coming.
  - dragonwriter 10y ago
    > Fix the standard The standard is that autocomplete attribute can be used to hint to the user-agent how to apply any autocomplete functionality it has. The standard is not that the UA must provide autocompletion when it is "on", or must not do so when it is "off". So, I don't see any problem with the standard and Chrome's behavior.
    - kuschku 10y ago
      Actually, the standard says that "on" is a MAY, but "off" is a SHOULD.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        Yes, and neither is a MUST.
      - zardeh 10y ago
        SHOULD is not SHALL.
saulr 10y ago
The standard is only a hint to the user agent, not a MUST.
- kuschku 10y ago
  Except, it is a SHOULD.
zimpenfish 10y ago
> standards are there for a reason > you don't just ignore them because you don't agree with them People always ignore the bits of the standards they don't agree with; taking an entirely dickish and non-random example e.g. <img src="http://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/df0e70f6e810442b86d701afcb193249?s=120"> http://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/df0e70f6e810442b86d701afcb... https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/ https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/ says "4.8.4.1.1 Except where otherwise specified, the alt attribute must be specified and its value must not be empty" Or having 4 <section> but only 3 </section>.

by jaitsu 10y ago

Karunamon 10y ago

And sometimes the standard is wrong. The page telling the browser that the user isn't allowed to auto fill a form puts too much control in the hand of the page.

DanBC 10y ago
Sure. Fix the standard, don't just make shit up. Maybe the standards process is broken, in which case that's something that needs fixing. I can't see why the four browser makers can't create their own browser standards.
- dreamdu5t 10y ago
  Standards are just made-up shit. Most of them are formalized descriptions of what people were already doing before the standard existed. Correct me if I'm wrong, but no browsers have formally committed to adhering to the standards.
  - wang_li 10y ago
    > Correct me if I'm wrong, but no browsers have formally committed to adhering to the standards. Don't know about that, but they certainly like to brag about the size of their standards compliance penis.
- lallysingh 10y ago
  You often need in-the-field experience with a proposed change before it's considered.
- matt_kantor 10y ago
  That sounds like what they're doing. > We don't just ignore the autocomplete attribute, however. In the WHATWG standard, we defined a series of new autocomplete values that developers can use to better inform the browser about what a particular field is, and we encourage developers to use those types. [2] > [2] https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/forms.html#autofill https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/forms.html#autofill In my opinion the new spec is overly-complicated and will probably not be followed by web developers, but on the other hand a binary "on"/"off" choice was way too blunt of an instrument. I don't know how the authors of the original autocomplete spec didn't see this coming.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Fix the standard The standard is that autocomplete attribute can be used to hint to the user-agent how to apply any autocomplete functionality it has. The standard is not that the UA must provide autocompletion when it is "on", or must not do so when it is "off". So, I don't see any problem with the standard and Chrome's behavior.
  - kuschku 10y ago
    Actually, the standard says that "on" is a MAY, but "off" is a SHOULD.
    - dragonwriter 10y ago
      Yes, and neither is a MUST.
    - zardeh 10y ago
      SHOULD is not SHALL.

saulr 10y ago

The standard is only a hint to the user agent, not a MUST.

kuschku 10y ago
Except, it is a SHOULD.

zimpenfish 10y ago

> standards are there for a reason > you don't just ignore them because you don't agree with them People always ignore the bits of the standards they don't agree with; taking an entirely dickish and non-random example e.g. <img src="http://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/df0e70f6e810442b86d701afcb193249?s=120"> http://secure.gravatar.com/avatar/df0e70f6e810442b86d701afcb... https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/ https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/ says "4.8.4.1.1 Except where otherwise specified, the alt attribute must be specified and its value must not be empty" Or having 4 <section> but only 3 </section>.