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Frustrated by the people who are claiming that this piece or the company is racist/unexceptional, or that this man's success is due to exclusively hard work. Th

Frustrated by the people who are claiming that this piece or the company is racist/unexceptional, or that this man's success is due to exclusively hard work. They are missing a greater point that hard work and circumstance are both needed and one is significantly less useful without the other, and that there are structural social challenges that should be addressed. It's also very possible to praise this, and everyone else's, achievement without: comparing starting circumstance in an attempt to one-up each other on the tragedy train, discounting luck, or discounting other struggles. Discussions like this remind me of this poignant comic on income inequality that is pretty much impossible to argue around: http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate http://thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate

Meegul 10y ago
That's a really good comic. I grew up very privileged and it's easy to give in to some of the thoughts that are displayed. I know far too many of my peers who probably wouldn't see the irony in it if you chopped off the right half.
yummyfajitas 10y ago
It's pretty easy to argue against that comic. Most of it is made-up anecdote. 2 of the 3 testable claims it makes are completely and nonsensically wrong, almost to the point of complete fabrication. The third testable claim I don't know how to google. Poor Americans don't live in overcrowded homes. Only 3.3% of those homes have "severe physical problems" (what I'm interpreting the comic to mean), and they typically have 2 rooms/person. http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf 60% of poor children have parents who didn't work at all during the year. In contrast, 51% of Americans 18-64 whole did work full time year round. http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2015/demo/p60-252.pdf http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publication... I don't have stats on classes sizes - do you? I suspect the author of that comic didn't bother to google before writing it. I'm not even going to try and refute the made-up anecdotes, e.g. dying father, parents who don't care about academics, and a boss who looks like a dog.
- laughinghan 10y ago
  I'm sorry what? Your interpretation of the comic is that it's claiming that poor Americans all live in the worst 3.3% of homes and have dying dads and bosses who look like dogs? The comic is saying that poor children have reduced access to resources and opportunities. That is testable, and widely accepted as true. Are you saying it's false?
  - yummyfajitas 10y ago
    The comic explicitly claims: Panel 2: Paulas house is full of people and not much else. It's damp and noisy and she keeps getting sick. My interpretation of this is that Paula's house is overcrowded and has severe physical problems that make her sick. How do you interpret it? Panel 3: That's why they're working two jobs. My interpretation of this is that Paula's parents are working two jobs, and as a result cannot help her with homework. In contrast, Richard's parents in the left side are doing exactly that. How did you interpret it?
    - laughinghan 10y ago
      Like I said in grandparent, I interpret it as saying that poor children have reduced access to resources and opportunities. Which is testable and widely accepted as true. The comic also explicitly claims that poor Americans are all named Paula, have been recommended Eazee Finance, and work as cater-waiters. Why didn't you take those literally? I'm no scientist, but I'm pretty sure at least one of those is also false. I think I met a poor person once who said she'd never heard of Eazee Finance. She might've misheard me, what with her poor hearing because the house she grew up in was so damp and noisy. Her name was Paula though, so anecdotally that checks out.
      - douche 10y ago
        With the name Paula, all I can think is that she became a really bad computer programmer[1][2], and was stuck waiting tables after the dot-com crash. It's weird how name associations stick in your head. [1]http://thedailywtf.com/articles/The_Brillant_Paula_Bean http://thedailywtf.com/articles/The_Brillant_Paula_Bean [2]http://thedailywtf.com/articles/The_Brillant_Paula_Strikes_Back http://thedailywtf.com/articles/The_Brillant_Paula_Strikes_B...
jshevek 10y ago
"comparing starting circumstance in an attempt to one-up each other on the tragedy train" This kind of thing is all too common among those who advocate for ideologies which they believe would make the world a better place. They lose the audience, and undermine their own claimed goals. As someone that cares about social justice, I think shining a light on this (and other unfortunate parts of 'the movement') is one of the most important things to do at this point.
jimmywanger 10y ago
You just proved the point. You're arguing socioeconomic cirumstance (which I think should be helped out) over race. If you're solidly middle/upper class, shouldn't matter what colour you are.

Meegul 10y ago

That's a really good comic. I grew up very privileged and it's easy to give in to some of the thoughts that are displayed. I know far too many of my peers who probably wouldn't see the irony in it if you chopped off the right half.

yummyfajitas 10y ago

It's pretty easy to argue against that comic. Most of it is made-up anecdote. 2 of the 3 testable claims it makes are completely and nonsensically wrong, almost to the point of complete fabrication. The third testable claim I don't know how to google. Poor Americans don't live in overcrowded homes. Only 3.3% of those homes have "severe physical problems" (what I'm interpreting the comic to mean), and they typically have 2 rooms/person. http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf http://www.census.gov/prod/2008pubs/h150-07.pdf 60% of poor children have parents who didn't work at all during the year. In contrast, 51% of Americans 18-64 whole did work full time year round. http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publications/2015/demo/p60-252.pdf http://www.census.gov/content/dam/Census/library/publication... I don't have stats on classes sizes - do you? I suspect the author of that comic didn't bother to google before writing it. I'm not even going to try and refute the made-up anecdotes, e.g. dying father, parents who don't care about academics, and a boss who looks like a dog.

laughinghan 10y ago
I'm sorry what? Your interpretation of the comic is that it's claiming that poor Americans all live in the worst 3.3% of homes and have dying dads and bosses who look like dogs? The comic is saying that poor children have reduced access to resources and opportunities. That is testable, and widely accepted as true. Are you saying it's false?
- yummyfajitas 10y ago
  The comic explicitly claims: Panel 2: Paulas house is full of people and not much else. It's damp and noisy and she keeps getting sick. My interpretation of this is that Paula's house is overcrowded and has severe physical problems that make her sick. How do you interpret it? Panel 3: That's why they're working two jobs. My interpretation of this is that Paula's parents are working two jobs, and as a result cannot help her with homework. In contrast, Richard's parents in the left side are doing exactly that. How did you interpret it?
  - laughinghan 10y ago
    Like I said in grandparent, I interpret it as saying that poor children have reduced access to resources and opportunities. Which is testable and widely accepted as true. The comic also explicitly claims that poor Americans are all named Paula, have been recommended Eazee Finance, and work as cater-waiters. Why didn't you take those literally? I'm no scientist, but I'm pretty sure at least one of those is also false. I think I met a poor person once who said she'd never heard of Eazee Finance. She might've misheard me, what with her poor hearing because the house she grew up in was so damp and noisy. Her name was Paula though, so anecdotally that checks out.
    - douche 10y ago
      With the name Paula, all I can think is that she became a really bad computer programmer[1][2], and was stuck waiting tables after the dot-com crash. It's weird how name associations stick in your head. [1]http://thedailywtf.com/articles/The_Brillant_Paula_Bean http://thedailywtf.com/articles/The_Brillant_Paula_Bean [2]http://thedailywtf.com/articles/The_Brillant_Paula_Strikes_Back http://thedailywtf.com/articles/The_Brillant_Paula_Strikes_B...

jshevek 10y ago

"comparing starting circumstance in an attempt to one-up each other on the tragedy train" This kind of thing is all too common among those who advocate for ideologies which they believe would make the world a better place. They lose the audience, and undermine their own claimed goals. As someone that cares about social justice, I think shining a light on this (and other unfortunate parts of 'the movement') is one of the most important things to do at this point.

jimmywanger 10y ago

You just proved the point. You're arguing socioeconomic cirumstance (which I think should be helped out) over race. If you're solidly middle/upper class, shouldn't matter what colour you are.