5 ms·

One of the biggest invisible biases is thinking you've managed to free yourself of invisible biases.

by jleader 10y ago

zyxley 10y ago
I'm reminded of the inevitable "I'm not biased, but I'm going to complain about this because I think it's an attack on me" that comes up whenever anyone on the internet mentions that institutional racism exists.
- bendbro 10y ago
  I'm reminded of the inevitable "I'm not biased, but I'm going to complain about this because I think it's an attack on me" that comes up whenever anyone on the internet mentions that speaking about institutional racism is just virtue signalling. You can see that arguments of that form aren't effective. I don't think that's a compelling argument for anyone other than those who have similar beliefs to you. Arguments from the left like that are the reason for the resurgence of the right.
- Spivak 10y ago
  You do understand the other side's situation right? You are, albeit impersonally, being accused of participating in something monstrous, the institutional subjugation and prejudicial treatment of an entire class of people, and there is literally nothing you can say or do which will demonstrate otherwise since your racist acts are unconscious and unknowable to you. It's like trying to convince someone that you're not crazy when they already think you are. It doesn't mater, anything you say or do just reinforces their belief. We all hold biases and prejudices for just about everything from concepts, ideas, products, institutions, and especially one another based on their history, race, creed, social status, clothing, voice, stature, hometown, manner of speaking, educational background, career field, job title, wealth, attractiveness, political beliefs, the list goes could go on for pages. But trying to equate these kinds of biases to being *-ist in any meaningful sense is missing the forest for the trees.
  - erikpukinskis 10y ago
    If you don't believe in widespread racism, what is your explanation for why people of color, as a group, keep having a bad time? It can't be some property of them, because believing that would be racist, right? If it's not them and it's not us (I'm white) then what is it?
    - CheckHook 10y ago
      The previous and continuing actions of bad people but not "you" as a collective, just the racist ones. (I'm mixed race, not that it should make my point any more/less valid).
      - erikpukinskis 10y ago
        Well, you're assuming too much about me... I am racist, I see it happen every day.
    - tremon 10y ago
      If you don't believe in widespread racism, what is your explanation for why people of color, as a group, keep having a bad time? Why does it need a different explanation then why many people of the white persuasion keep having a bad time? When you selectively group people together, you will always get an identifiable pattern. But you can't then claim that the pattern is universal, since the pattern was predefined in your selection.
      - erikpukinskis 10y ago
        That's a really good question. I guess I want to collect as many explanations as possible. I am interested in making society better, so I want to have thousands and thousands of explanations for every little bit of violence. So I can make decisions that undermine them when I have the chance. If I don't have the explanations its hard to understand what's happening and how to react. I also collect explanations for why there is so much violence against white people. I think a lot about violence against men lately. But that doesn't stop me from thinking there are some instances of violence that are best explained as violence against women.
- hackney 10y ago
  Belief is something everyone the world over lives and dies by. The only thing to worry about is if you have a positive belief, as opposed to a negative one. Negativity, in any form, is harmful to all, while being positive has the opposite effect. Summarily, all communication can and should be based upon opposing viewpoints. This does not make either one wrong, it is just the way it is. So I agree but would change it to "keep your identity positive", large or small is relative.
nevster 10y ago
Ugh - we were talking with a group specifically about unconscious biases and while one person was relating how they had unwittingly found out one of their unconscious biases, another person looked on in pity and then declared how proud they were that they were free of bias. Seriously!

One of the biggest invisible biases is thinking you've managed to free yourself of invisible biases.

by jleader 10y ago

One of the biggest invisible biases is thinking you've managed to free yourself of invisible biases.

I'm reminded of the inevitable "I'm not biased, but I'm going to complain about this because I think it's an attack on me" that comes up whenever anyone on the internet mentions that institutional racism exists.

bendbro 10y ago
I'm reminded of the inevitable "I'm not biased, but I'm going to complain about this because I think it's an attack on me" that comes up whenever anyone on the internet mentions that speaking about institutional racism is just virtue signalling. You can see that arguments of that form aren't effective. I don't think that's a compelling argument for anyone other than those who have similar beliefs to you. Arguments from the left like that are the reason for the resurgence of the right.
Spivak 10y ago
You do understand the other side's situation right? You are, albeit impersonally, being accused of participating in something monstrous, the institutional subjugation and prejudicial treatment of an entire class of people, and there is literally nothing you can say or do which will demonstrate otherwise since your racist acts are unconscious and unknowable to you. It's like trying to convince someone that you're not crazy when they already think you are. It doesn't mater, anything you say or do just reinforces their belief. We all hold biases and prejudices for just about everything from concepts, ideas, products, institutions, and especially one another based on their history, race, creed, social status, clothing, voice, stature, hometown, manner of speaking, educational background, career field, job title, wealth, attractiveness, political beliefs, the list goes could go on for pages. But trying to equate these kinds of biases to being *-ist in any meaningful sense is missing the forest for the trees.
- erikpukinskis 10y ago
  If you don't believe in widespread racism, what is your explanation for why people of color, as a group, keep having a bad time? It can't be some property of them, because believing that would be racist, right? If it's not them and it's not us (I'm white) then what is it?
  - CheckHook 10y ago
    The previous and continuing actions of bad people but not "you" as a collective, just the racist ones. (I'm mixed race, not that it should make my point any more/less valid).
    - erikpukinskis 10y ago
      Well, you're assuming too much about me... I am racist, I see it happen every day.
  - tremon 10y ago
    If you don't believe in widespread racism, what is your explanation for why people of color, as a group, keep having a bad time? Why does it need a different explanation then why many people of the white persuasion keep having a bad time? When you selectively group people together, you will always get an identifiable pattern. But you can't then claim that the pattern is universal, since the pattern was predefined in your selection.
    - erikpukinskis 10y ago
      That's a really good question. I guess I want to collect as many explanations as possible. I am interested in making society better, so I want to have thousands and thousands of explanations for every little bit of violence. So I can make decisions that undermine them when I have the chance. If I don't have the explanations its hard to understand what's happening and how to react. I also collect explanations for why there is so much violence against white people. I think a lot about violence against men lately. But that doesn't stop me from thinking there are some instances of violence that are best explained as violence against women.
hackney 10y ago
Belief is something everyone the world over lives and dies by. The only thing to worry about is if you have a positive belief, as opposed to a negative one. Negativity, in any form, is harmful to all, while being positive has the opposite effect. Summarily, all communication can and should be based upon opposing viewpoints. This does not make either one wrong, it is just the way it is. So I agree but would change it to "keep your identity positive", large or small is relative.

nevster 10y ago

Ugh - we were talking with a group specifically about unconscious biases and while one person was relating how they had unwittingly found out one of their unconscious biases, another person looked on in pity and then declared how proud they were that they were free of bias. Seriously!