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This blew me away: "Venture capitalist Michael Cardamone, the tournament’s co-organizer, approves of young companies buying tables with venture funds. “You abs

This blew me away: "Venture capitalist Michael Cardamone, the tournament’s co-organizer, approves of young companies buying tables with venture funds. “You absolutely should,” he says. “It’s part of building culture.”"

jychang 10y ago
It makes sense in terms of cost to benefit. A ping pong table is a few hundred dollars at most. An employee performing well is $100,000 at minimum. Little things like free food and ping pong tables actually offer a massive return on investment.
- joelrunyon 10y ago
  From the article > Startups pay up to $2,300 for a high-end Butterfly-brand table. Your point stands, but the pricing is quite different.
  - duaneb 10y ago
    The quote makes it clear that's the upper bound, which doesn't offer any information about the rest of the purchases, let alone the mean.
- dabeeeenster 10y ago
  In London a Ping Pong table would cost around £10k/year in floorspace used.
  - runholm 10y ago
    A company often spend some floor space on areas where employees can take a break from work to disconnect for a few minutes. Why not put a ping pong table there?
    - jon-wood 10y ago
      Because it then stops being a space where people can take a break, and becomes a space where two people are playing ping pong, with everyone else crammed along the wall.
- bnegreve 10y ago
  Only if having a ping pong table (or free food) improve productivity. That's a rather strong assumption.
  - duaneb 10y ago
    Is it? Employee retention certainly has strong correlation with productivity.
    - fintuple 10y ago
      It's certainly not linear, though; I think it will be interesting to see what's better in the long run. It's obviously impossible to measure, due to unpredictable factors such as changes in industry and market and competition. As a whole, though, I think people, especially in our industry, aren't stupid. Free food would certainly be a more competitive retention factor (than ping pong) -- barring that your company's biggest competitors in terms of hiring aren't also offering free food.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - zeemonkee3 10y ago
      Personally, a decent salary & benefits, interesting projects, learning opportunities and sane management would keep me in your company for life. But, given these things are so difficult to deliver on, let's just throw them kids' games, energy bars and craft beer on tap.
      - lmm 10y ago
        It's not like having B makes A harder.
        zeemonkee3 10y ago
        No, but it's when they are used as substitutes. "Hey, we have a dysfunctional CEO, a runway shorter than the one at Hong Kong airport, and a legacy codebase that reduces the most experienced developer to a gibbering wreck. But look - we have foosball and whiskey tasting nights!"
- cylinder 10y ago
  Who are these people who play ping pong during work hours? I want to finish my work and go home. If I have a break, I want to go outside and get some sun and air because I hate being inside all day. I'm not looking for a frat.
  - gambiting 10y ago
    Hmmmmm I work at a large games publisher, and it's normal that everyone plays games during lunch(1 hour lunch is normal). I usually have 30 minutes for food then play something for the other 30 minutes(currently trying to get through Dark Souls 3). I guess it's the same with ping-pong or any other in-office activity.
  - hfaran 10y ago
    Likely people who enjoy taking a break at some point during the day and also enjoy playing ping pong? I don't see how going outside to "get some sun" is objectively any better in general.
  - toomanybeersies 10y ago
    My attitude to a T. My workplace is for working, it's not a playhouse.
- jonnathanson 10y ago
  "Little things like free food and ping pong tables actually offer a massive return on investment." Yes, provided everything else about the company is working. People are productive. The product is showing signs of fit. People believe in the founder(s)' vision and in the CEO's direction. Under these circumstances, things like ping pong tables and free meals can offer amazing ROI. But when your first few business moves are shopping for fancy digs and filling the space with ping pong tables, your priorities are questionable. Morale can't be bought with trinkets. Morale is earned with a strong sense of collective mission and product traction. The rest is icing on the cake. This distinction is often lost on people, who rush off to buy foosball tables as though the mere presence of such will trick employees into being happy and productive. It's a very '90s attitude: "People want to work for a startup that looks startupy." Well, sure. But the best people want to work for a startup that has a real shot at success, first and foremost.
jon-wood 10y ago
Its part of building a culture certainly. Believe it or not its possible to build a company culture around things other than ping pong though - the last company I was at had a culture that revolved around food, cooking, and eating together for example (they do food delivery). Probably not as good for my waistline, but it definitely brought everyone together.
golergka 10y ago
In my current company, ping pong table is the strongest day-by-day teambuilding activity — something that different team members do together, not related to work, something that builds positive relationships between anyone. Most of interactions with some people in the company are intense and have potential for conflict (just because our respective roles), and ping pong offers us a chance to have a different kind of interaction. In previous company, it was a pool table and game room with Rocket League. In one before that, foosball. Regardless of the game, having some game that is played regularly by coworkers together really helps to build positive relationships and create a team. Definitely worth investor's money.
TrevorJ 10y ago
That's cargo cult thinking if I've ever heard it.

jychang 10y ago

It makes sense in terms of cost to benefit. A ping pong table is a few hundred dollars at most. An employee performing well is $100,000 at minimum. Little things like free food and ping pong tables actually offer a massive return on investment.

joelrunyon 10y ago
From the article > Startups pay up to $2,300 for a high-end Butterfly-brand table. Your point stands, but the pricing is quite different.
- duaneb 10y ago
  The quote makes it clear that's the upper bound, which doesn't offer any information about the rest of the purchases, let alone the mean.
dabeeeenster 10y ago
In London a Ping Pong table would cost around £10k/year in floorspace used.
- runholm 10y ago
  A company often spend some floor space on areas where employees can take a break from work to disconnect for a few minutes. Why not put a ping pong table there?
  - jon-wood 10y ago
    Because it then stops being a space where people can take a break, and becomes a space where two people are playing ping pong, with everyone else crammed along the wall.
bnegreve 10y ago
Only if having a ping pong table (or free food) improve productivity. That's a rather strong assumption.
- duaneb 10y ago
  Is it? Employee retention certainly has strong correlation with productivity.
  - fintuple 10y ago
    It's certainly not linear, though; I think it will be interesting to see what's better in the long run. It's obviously impossible to measure, due to unpredictable factors such as changes in industry and market and competition. As a whole, though, I think people, especially in our industry, aren't stupid. Free food would certainly be a more competitive retention factor (than ping pong) -- barring that your company's biggest competitors in terms of hiring aren't also offering free food.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - zeemonkee3 10y ago
    Personally, a decent salary & benefits, interesting projects, learning opportunities and sane management would keep me in your company for life. But, given these things are so difficult to deliver on, let's just throw them kids' games, energy bars and craft beer on tap.
    - lmm 10y ago
      It's not like having B makes A harder.
      - zeemonkee3 10y ago
        No, but it's when they are used as substitutes. "Hey, we have a dysfunctional CEO, a runway shorter than the one at Hong Kong airport, and a legacy codebase that reduces the most experienced developer to a gibbering wreck. But look - we have foosball and whiskey tasting nights!"
cylinder 10y ago
Who are these people who play ping pong during work hours? I want to finish my work and go home. If I have a break, I want to go outside and get some sun and air because I hate being inside all day. I'm not looking for a frat.
- gambiting 10y ago
  Hmmmmm I work at a large games publisher, and it's normal that everyone plays games during lunch(1 hour lunch is normal). I usually have 30 minutes for food then play something for the other 30 minutes(currently trying to get through Dark Souls 3). I guess it's the same with ping-pong or any other in-office activity.
- hfaran 10y ago
  Likely people who enjoy taking a break at some point during the day and also enjoy playing ping pong? I don't see how going outside to "get some sun" is objectively any better in general.
- toomanybeersies 10y ago
  My attitude to a T. My workplace is for working, it's not a playhouse.
jonnathanson 10y ago
"Little things like free food and ping pong tables actually offer a massive return on investment." Yes, provided everything else about the company is working. People are productive. The product is showing signs of fit. People believe in the founder(s)' vision and in the CEO's direction. Under these circumstances, things like ping pong tables and free meals can offer amazing ROI. But when your first few business moves are shopping for fancy digs and filling the space with ping pong tables, your priorities are questionable. Morale can't be bought with trinkets. Morale is earned with a strong sense of collective mission and product traction. The rest is icing on the cake. This distinction is often lost on people, who rush off to buy foosball tables as though the mere presence of such will trick employees into being happy and productive. It's a very '90s attitude: "People want to work for a startup that looks startupy." Well, sure. But the best people want to work for a startup that has a real shot at success, first and foremost.

jon-wood 10y ago

Its part of building a culture certainly. Believe it or not its possible to build a company culture around things other than ping pong though - the last company I was at had a culture that revolved around food, cooking, and eating together for example (they do food delivery). Probably not as good for my waistline, but it definitely brought everyone together.

golergka 10y ago

In my current company, ping pong table is the strongest day-by-day teambuilding activity — something that different team members do together, not related to work, something that builds positive relationships between anyone. Most of interactions with some people in the company are intense and have potential for conflict (just because our respective roles), and ping pong offers us a chance to have a different kind of interaction. In previous company, it was a pool table and game room with Rocket League. In one before that, foosball. Regardless of the game, having some game that is played regularly by coworkers together really helps to build positive relationships and create a team. Definitely worth investor's money.

TrevorJ 10y ago

That's cargo cult thinking if I've ever heard it.