6 ms·

Funny to see my old blog post mysteriously resurface on the front page. I should note that IANAL but have spoken to many lawyers about this post over the years

Funny to see my old blog post mysteriously resurface on the front page. I should note that IANAL but have spoken to many lawyers about this post over the years and am happy to answer any questions I can about it.

seizethecheese 10y ago
I'm working on a startup right now that involves hardware. How worried should I be about existing patents? Thanks!
- danshapiro 10y ago
  My $0.02: If you don't have a lot of money, ignore patents for now, but realize that as soon as your ideas are public they are internationally unpatentable. If you have a little money, file 1-2 key patents on your core ideas. If you're rolling in money, hire a patent firm to chart the landscape for you in a way that doesn't expose you to willful infringement. Note: the entire system is a steaming morass; I try to be pragmatic about it, but don't disagree with those who want to flip the table and ignore the whole mess.
  - seizethecheese 10y ago
    Thanks, this is very valuable info. What constitutes my ideas being public? If I already have a splash page up, does that count?
    - fncypants 10y ago
      Any public disclosure of your product (which could be as simple as a demo to potential investors not under NDA or a YouTube video), "publications" including web pages, and "offers to sell" which may include advertising. Announcing the name of your product probably is not a problem, but a splash page that describes how it works or on boarding users could make your idea public. The details can get tricky. If you think you might want a patent, don't hesitate to talk to a patent lawyer to make sure you are not waiving your rights, otherwise you'll regret it. You can always choose not to spend money on the patent application but make that decision after you know what you are doing.
  - throwawaykf05 10y ago
    > ... filing a provisional patent starts a 1-year clock where, if you don't find the money and time to file a real patent, your IP irrevocably enters the public domain. IANAL, but I believe this is incorrect. My understanding is that if you don't follow up with a non-provisional ("real") patent application, the provisionals don't count as prior art, and in fact might as well not exist. This is because provisionals are not published and cannot be discovered until the corresponding non-provisional is published. Would prefer if an actual patent lawyer could confirm, however.
    - danshapiro 10y ago
      You're right, fixed. Thank you. What I was thinking of was this: 1) File provisional 2) Publicly disclose 3) Provisional expires At this point, your public disclosure counts as prior art.
      - ausjke 10y ago
        Isn't provisional also public info that anyone can access?
  - desdiv 10y ago
    > but realize that as soon as your ideas are public they are internationally unpatentable. Most countries have a grace period[0] of 6 months to a year where you can still file for patents even after public announcement. The grace period is one year for US. [0] http://mewburn.com/resource/grace-periods-for-disclosure-of-an-invention-before-applying-for-a-patent/ http://mewburn.com/resource/grace-periods-for-disclosure-of-...
sogen 10y ago
Hi, a familiar found a patent similar to her idea, with the difference being one word: "custom". her product idea is " non-custom" (off the shelf). Is that difference enough for a patent?

seizethecheese 10y ago

I'm working on a startup right now that involves hardware. How worried should I be about existing patents? Thanks!

danshapiro 10y ago
My $0.02: If you don't have a lot of money, ignore patents for now, but realize that as soon as your ideas are public they are internationally unpatentable. If you have a little money, file 1-2 key patents on your core ideas. If you're rolling in money, hire a patent firm to chart the landscape for you in a way that doesn't expose you to willful infringement. Note: the entire system is a steaming morass; I try to be pragmatic about it, but don't disagree with those who want to flip the table and ignore the whole mess.
- seizethecheese 10y ago
  Thanks, this is very valuable info. What constitutes my ideas being public? If I already have a splash page up, does that count?
  - fncypants 10y ago
    Any public disclosure of your product (which could be as simple as a demo to potential investors not under NDA or a YouTube video), "publications" including web pages, and "offers to sell" which may include advertising. Announcing the name of your product probably is not a problem, but a splash page that describes how it works or on boarding users could make your idea public. The details can get tricky. If you think you might want a patent, don't hesitate to talk to a patent lawyer to make sure you are not waiving your rights, otherwise you'll regret it. You can always choose not to spend money on the patent application but make that decision after you know what you are doing.
- throwawaykf05 10y ago
  > ... filing a provisional patent starts a 1-year clock where, if you don't find the money and time to file a real patent, your IP irrevocably enters the public domain. IANAL, but I believe this is incorrect. My understanding is that if you don't follow up with a non-provisional ("real") patent application, the provisionals don't count as prior art, and in fact might as well not exist. This is because provisionals are not published and cannot be discovered until the corresponding non-provisional is published. Would prefer if an actual patent lawyer could confirm, however.
  - danshapiro 10y ago
    You're right, fixed. Thank you. What I was thinking of was this: 1) File provisional 2) Publicly disclose 3) Provisional expires At this point, your public disclosure counts as prior art.
    - ausjke 10y ago
      Isn't provisional also public info that anyone can access?
- desdiv 10y ago
  > but realize that as soon as your ideas are public they are internationally unpatentable. Most countries have a grace period[0] of 6 months to a year where you can still file for patents even after public announcement. The grace period is one year for US. [0] http://mewburn.com/resource/grace-periods-for-disclosure-of-an-invention-before-applying-for-a-patent/ http://mewburn.com/resource/grace-periods-for-disclosure-of-...

sogen 10y ago

Hi, a familiar found a patent similar to her idea, with the difference being one word: "custom". her product idea is " non-custom" (off the shelf). Is that difference enough for a patent?