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This has gone full circle and honestly is quite irritating at this point. People say that Google uses GA data for advertising, I say that this is not the case

This has gone full circle and honestly is quite irritating at this point. People say that Google uses GA data for advertising, I say that this is not the case and then you just chose to ignore that. So I'm just gonna ask directly - can you show some evidence suggesting Google uses GA data for building advertising profiles or did you pull this opinion out of your ass? Because as someone who analyses marketing and advertising data, I can tell you that I strongly believe they do not use GA data in this way. 1) They have no need to, they have better data; 2) This data is unreliable; 3) GA prohibits the use of personally identifiable information; and most important of all: THE WEBMASTER CAN CHOSE TO NOT SHARE IT WITH THEM. If this webmaster went out of his way to tell google not to store IP information, I think it is pretty safe to assume that they did not opt-in to share the data with google AT ALL. Apart from these technical reasons, using GA data in the way you think they do opens a regulatory risk of EPIC proportions. But if you have some evidence to suggest that they do use it for "advertising profiles", please do share it. But if you can't and you formed this opinion because you are prejudiced, I would like to see you admitting it.

stephenr 10y ago
> Because as someone who analyses marketing and advertising data, I can tell you that I strongly believe they do not use GA data in this way. You can choose to believe that, and I can believe that a huge company funded almost entirely by placing highly targeted adverts on third-party websites across the web has a vested interest in data collection. > THE WEBMASTER CAN CHOSE TO NOT SHARE IT WITH THEM. Calm your tits. No one is claiming that Google hijacks other people's websites to inject GA tracking codes. The point is that saying "(webmaster) chose not to share visitor IP addresses" ignores a key point: GA relies on the client loading javascript from a GA domain. That means GA has a client IP for the user-agent (i.e. browser) making the call. That isn't an opinion, its just how IP networking works. Edit: Because someone else in this thread referenced some very relevant parts of Google's terms/policies: "We use the information we collect from all of our services to provide, maintain, protect and improve them, to develop new ones, and to protect Google and our users. We also use this information to offer you tailored content – like giving you more relevant search results and ads." https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/ https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/ "When you visit a website that uses our advertising products (like AdSense), social products (like the +1 button) or analytics tools (Google Analytics), your web browser automatically sends certain information to Google... When you visit websites or use apps that use Google technologies, we may use the information we receive from those websites and apps..." https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/partners/ https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/partners/
- TheLogothete 10y ago
  Except that my opinion is formed based on logic and my expertise and your opinion is based on... what exactly? >That means GA has a client IP for the user-agent When IP masking is enabled, Analytics removes the last octet of the user's IP address prior to its use and storage. SO... yeah. And I just LOVE how you selectively quote, so I'm gonna finish the quote for you: "It should be noted this does not directly contradict what GP claims." It is not shameful to be wrong. It is shameful when you can't admit that you are wrong. And especially when you can't admit it even to yourself.
  - stephenr 10y ago
    > Except that my opinion is formed based on logic and my expertise and your opinion is based on... what exactly? The exact words from Google own privacy policy, and the fundamentals of how IP networking works? > It should be noted this does not directly contradict what GP claims I disagree with that interpretation. They specifically say that they use data collected: "We also use this information to offer you tailored content – like giving you more relevant search results and ads." When IP masking is enabled, Analytics removes the last octet of the user's IP address prior to its use and storage. SO... yeah. So that broadens the data to at-most, a 1 in 254 match based on IP address, taking User Agent strings and other browser information (plugins installed, window size, etc) I'd bet $100 they can still pinpoint a single device based on a 'masked' entry from GA data. > It is not shameful to be wrong. It is shameful when you can't admit that you are wrong. And especially when you can't admit it even to yourself. An opinion cannot be wrong. It's logically impossible. An opinion can be based on incorrect assumptions or incorrect knowledge, but an opinion in and of itself cannot be wrong.
    - TheLogothete 10y ago
      You are so desperate to justify your thinking (not to me, mind you, to yourself) that you grasp for every straw possible, forgetting what the question was about along the way. This particular question was about how you formed your opinion about Google using GA data to build advertising profiles. My opinion is formed based on my expertise in mining many terabytes of data and my experience in sourcing this data. Based on that experience I can say that GA data is not of interest to google because it is unreliable and they have better data already. Even if it was, they would have to stop themselves because it is just too damn risky (bankruptcy level risk) to use it. So my opinion stems from my experience in this very business. And your opinion stems from where exactly? This is what I'm trying to show you. You have 0 idea what you are talking about but insist that you are right. Even further, you outright accuse google of lying when they say GA data is not used unless the webmaster explicitly opts in to share it. Why do they have that control in first place then? Oh and btw, that quote about relevant search results and ads... you might want to check where it comes from before basing arguments off it. You know, if you want to have a coherent argument and not some tin foil conspiracy theory grasping desperately for whatever it can catch. Checking facts is a good thing, don't you agree? Anyway, you will either admit it to yourself tomorrow, or you won't. I don't particularly care. I just wanted to see how far you will go in your justification attempt. Remember that just because you are allowed to have an opinion does not mean you must have one.
tremon 10y ago
THE WEBMASTER CAN CHOSE TO NOT SHARE IT WITH THEM No they can't, unless that choice means that the data never arrives at Google's servers.
- TheLogothete 10y ago
  Of course they can. When you sign up for GA, you get asked Do you want to share data with google to improve our products? Do you want to pool aggregated data for benchmarking? Both are unchecked by default. Or do you think that google will access the data without permission? In which case, what do you base your opinion on?

stephenr 10y ago

> Because as someone who analyses marketing and advertising data, I can tell you that I strongly believe they do not use GA data in this way. You can choose to believe that, and I can believe that a huge company funded almost entirely by placing highly targeted adverts on third-party websites across the web has a vested interest in data collection. > THE WEBMASTER CAN CHOSE TO NOT SHARE IT WITH THEM. Calm your tits. No one is claiming that Google hijacks other people's websites to inject GA tracking codes. The point is that saying "(webmaster) chose not to share visitor IP addresses" ignores a key point: GA relies on the client loading javascript from a GA domain. That means GA has a client IP for the user-agent (i.e. browser) making the call. That isn't an opinion, its just how IP networking works. Edit: Because someone else in this thread referenced some very relevant parts of Google's terms/policies: "We use the information we collect from all of our services to provide, maintain, protect and improve them, to develop new ones, and to protect Google and our users. We also use this information to offer you tailored content – like giving you more relevant search results and ads." https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/ https://www.google.com/intl/en/policies/privacy/ "When you visit a website that uses our advertising products (like AdSense), social products (like the +1 button) or analytics tools (Google Analytics), your web browser automatically sends certain information to Google... When you visit websites or use apps that use Google technologies, we may use the information we receive from those websites and apps..." https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/partners/ https://www.google.com/policies/privacy/partners/

TheLogothete 10y ago
Except that my opinion is formed based on logic and my expertise and your opinion is based on... what exactly? >That means GA has a client IP for the user-agent When IP masking is enabled, Analytics removes the last octet of the user's IP address prior to its use and storage. SO... yeah. And I just LOVE how you selectively quote, so I'm gonna finish the quote for you: "It should be noted this does not directly contradict what GP claims." It is not shameful to be wrong. It is shameful when you can't admit that you are wrong. And especially when you can't admit it even to yourself.
- stephenr 10y ago
  > Except that my opinion is formed based on logic and my expertise and your opinion is based on... what exactly? The exact words from Google own privacy policy, and the fundamentals of how IP networking works? > It should be noted this does not directly contradict what GP claims I disagree with that interpretation. They specifically say that they use data collected: "We also use this information to offer you tailored content – like giving you more relevant search results and ads." When IP masking is enabled, Analytics removes the last octet of the user's IP address prior to its use and storage. SO... yeah. So that broadens the data to at-most, a 1 in 254 match based on IP address, taking User Agent strings and other browser information (plugins installed, window size, etc) I'd bet $100 they can still pinpoint a single device based on a 'masked' entry from GA data. > It is not shameful to be wrong. It is shameful when you can't admit that you are wrong. And especially when you can't admit it even to yourself. An opinion cannot be wrong. It's logically impossible. An opinion can be based on incorrect assumptions or incorrect knowledge, but an opinion in and of itself cannot be wrong.
  - TheLogothete 10y ago
    You are so desperate to justify your thinking (not to me, mind you, to yourself) that you grasp for every straw possible, forgetting what the question was about along the way. This particular question was about how you formed your opinion about Google using GA data to build advertising profiles. My opinion is formed based on my expertise in mining many terabytes of data and my experience in sourcing this data. Based on that experience I can say that GA data is not of interest to google because it is unreliable and they have better data already. Even if it was, they would have to stop themselves because it is just too damn risky (bankruptcy level risk) to use it. So my opinion stems from my experience in this very business. And your opinion stems from where exactly? This is what I'm trying to show you. You have 0 idea what you are talking about but insist that you are right. Even further, you outright accuse google of lying when they say GA data is not used unless the webmaster explicitly opts in to share it. Why do they have that control in first place then? Oh and btw, that quote about relevant search results and ads... you might want to check where it comes from before basing arguments off it. You know, if you want to have a coherent argument and not some tin foil conspiracy theory grasping desperately for whatever it can catch. Checking facts is a good thing, don't you agree? Anyway, you will either admit it to yourself tomorrow, or you won't. I don't particularly care. I just wanted to see how far you will go in your justification attempt. Remember that just because you are allowed to have an opinion does not mean you must have one.

tremon 10y ago

THE WEBMASTER CAN CHOSE TO NOT SHARE IT WITH THEM No they can't, unless that choice means that the data never arrives at Google's servers.

TheLogothete 10y ago
Of course they can. When you sign up for GA, you get asked Do you want to share data with google to improve our products? Do you want to pool aggregated data for benchmarking? Both are unchecked by default. Or do you think that google will access the data without permission? In which case, what do you base your opinion on?