6 ms·

My advice would be to somehow indicate exactly the text that was expounded - maybe with a faint underline or something. When it expands out, it's sometimes diff

by bart3r 10y ago

My advice would be to somehow indicate exactly the text that was expounded - maybe with a faint underline or something. When it expands out, it's sometimes difficult to track the exact words that suddenly appear.

jtmarmon 10y ago
and add an option to re-collapse the text
- StavrosK 10y ago
  That's another feature that's requested a lot. I'm still not convinced that it's something people request because they actually want to re-collapse the text or just because they're used to the mechanic of "if it expands, it must contract". Presumably they wouldn't feel the need to collapse a paragraph that they didn't expand first, even if it was the exact same paragraph.
  - vcarl 10y ago
    It throws off my reading if I'm just checking that I know what something is and only need a quick skim to verify that. I immediately lost track of what was the explanation and what was the original text.
    - StavrosK 10y ago
      The idea is that you don't need to keep track of what's what, it's all original text. Why did you feel you had to distinguish?
      - throwanem 10y ago
        Can't speak for GP, but I experienced a similar moment of "ok now how do i close this again" before realizing I didn't really need to. But that didn't feel quite right either, like a popup that won't go away once its purpose has been served. Or like checking a footnote, and having a hard time finding my way back to wherever it was referenced. I get that what this library does isn't quite either of those things, but it feels enough like both of them that not being able to un-expound feels a little weird.
  - gravity13 10y ago
    I've actually been thinking about doing the same thing in a side project of my own, and while I think you're somewhat correct, I don't think this is all necessarily attributable to affinities for symmetry. For instance, if you convey a concept, and then show the derivation of the equation for that - the derivation mostly does not matter in the communication of the concept. Sure it's important to understand this, thus why we always have the derivation, but often it adds cognitive weight that distracts from the more germane understanding of the material (so keen authors will try and be elegant about the complicated things, skipping steps and keeping as much on one page). It takes up cognitive load, and often a different type of load than the big picture. By collapsing the content, you get back to the more pure "short version" of the material and you can presume to understand or trust the more complicated bits that are hidden away.
    - StavrosK 10y ago
      I see what you mean, but why does it matter? By the time you've read the explanation, you've moved past it, and no additional action is necessary, it's just of no interest to you any more, like the rest of the text you've read. Adding a collapsing mechanic would "require" you to take action again by collapsing the thing, even though you will never return to see it.
      - IanCal 10y ago
        There are a few things: Even if it's not that useful, it's what I expect to happen without thinking. Having no "undo" makes me wonder what happened and a vague fear that I've done something destructive. More personally, it just feels a bit weird with the way I jump back and forth in documents as everything moves. I can't quite explain it but it feels quite weird. > By the time you've read the explanation, you've moved past it The explanations/diagrams don't appear immediately after/over what I click. So I click for extra info, jump over some intermediate text and read the extra stuff then I want to go back to the normal flow. Look at 'atoms' and 'photons' in the example text: https://skorokithakis.github.io/expounder/ https://skorokithakis.github.io/expounder/ There are other examples of this too, in your original blog post about building the sensor. Look for examples where the extra explanatory text appears in a paragraph after what you click on.
  - mc808 10y ago
    One place collapsing would be useful is if the revealed text turns out not to be what I was expecting. E.g. maybe I thought clicking Planck's constant would reveal a number or equation. On the other hand, I could see the extra mechanic leading me to try to "curate" the article, which would distract from the actual content. There is definitely value in keeping it simple.
  - chris_st 10y ago
    Very nice library! I think that the "no collapse" thing is the right way to go. It's simpler, and really no cognitive load... you can ignore any text in the article you want :-). Also, when you go back to the page, it's all collapsed again anyway, so the next time you read it, you don't need the expounded bits, and it's all compact. It's also just prettier to not have a bunch of lurking controls.
    - StavrosK 10y ago
      Thank you! I think so too. We implemented it, after multiple requests, but I dislike it so much that I decided to not put it in the documentation. It's there if an author chooses to use it, but I'd prefer them not to!
StavrosK 10y ago
Ah, good idea. Right now you get a fade, but that's easy to miss. Of course, the intent is that the expounded text becomes a part of the overall paragraph, so you shouldn't need to know what was just expounded, you just read on, so there's definitely a balance there. Also, the text is very very easy for the website owner to style, with just a single CSS rule. EDIT: I've added some styling information to the page, thanks.
- NicoJuicy 10y ago
  This is the first time i heard about https://gitcdn.xyz/ https://gitcdn.xyz/ while checking your page source. That's actually a smart idea for a CDN :)
  - StavrosK 10y ago
    Yep! We were using rawgit initially, but it went down on the first day for hours, so we changed to that instead.
arikrak 10y ago
Or maybe just use a popup, not sure if inlining it is better.
- lfowles 10y ago
  Exactly, I was thinking that something like the XKCD What-If notes would be easier on the reader and the writer.

by bart3r 10y ago

jtmarmon 10y ago

and add an option to re-collapse the text

StavrosK 10y ago
That's another feature that's requested a lot. I'm still not convinced that it's something people request because they actually want to re-collapse the text or just because they're used to the mechanic of "if it expands, it must contract". Presumably they wouldn't feel the need to collapse a paragraph that they didn't expand first, even if it was the exact same paragraph.
- vcarl 10y ago
  It throws off my reading if I'm just checking that I know what something is and only need a quick skim to verify that. I immediately lost track of what was the explanation and what was the original text.
  - StavrosK 10y ago
    The idea is that you don't need to keep track of what's what, it's all original text. Why did you feel you had to distinguish?
    - throwanem 10y ago
      Can't speak for GP, but I experienced a similar moment of "ok now how do i close this again" before realizing I didn't really need to. But that didn't feel quite right either, like a popup that won't go away once its purpose has been served. Or like checking a footnote, and having a hard time finding my way back to wherever it was referenced. I get that what this library does isn't quite either of those things, but it feels enough like both of them that not being able to un-expound feels a little weird.
- gravity13 10y ago
  I've actually been thinking about doing the same thing in a side project of my own, and while I think you're somewhat correct, I don't think this is all necessarily attributable to affinities for symmetry. For instance, if you convey a concept, and then show the derivation of the equation for that - the derivation mostly does not matter in the communication of the concept. Sure it's important to understand this, thus why we always have the derivation, but often it adds cognitive weight that distracts from the more germane understanding of the material (so keen authors will try and be elegant about the complicated things, skipping steps and keeping as much on one page). It takes up cognitive load, and often a different type of load than the big picture. By collapsing the content, you get back to the more pure "short version" of the material and you can presume to understand or trust the more complicated bits that are hidden away.
  - StavrosK 10y ago
    I see what you mean, but why does it matter? By the time you've read the explanation, you've moved past it, and no additional action is necessary, it's just of no interest to you any more, like the rest of the text you've read. Adding a collapsing mechanic would "require" you to take action again by collapsing the thing, even though you will never return to see it.
    - IanCal 10y ago
      There are a few things: Even if it's not that useful, it's what I expect to happen without thinking. Having no "undo" makes me wonder what happened and a vague fear that I've done something destructive. More personally, it just feels a bit weird with the way I jump back and forth in documents as everything moves. I can't quite explain it but it feels quite weird. > By the time you've read the explanation, you've moved past it The explanations/diagrams don't appear immediately after/over what I click. So I click for extra info, jump over some intermediate text and read the extra stuff then I want to go back to the normal flow. Look at 'atoms' and 'photons' in the example text: https://skorokithakis.github.io/expounder/ https://skorokithakis.github.io/expounder/ There are other examples of this too, in your original blog post about building the sensor. Look for examples where the extra explanatory text appears in a paragraph after what you click on.
- mc808 10y ago
  One place collapsing would be useful is if the revealed text turns out not to be what I was expecting. E.g. maybe I thought clicking Planck's constant would reveal a number or equation. On the other hand, I could see the extra mechanic leading me to try to "curate" the article, which would distract from the actual content. There is definitely value in keeping it simple.
- chris_st 10y ago
  Very nice library! I think that the "no collapse" thing is the right way to go. It's simpler, and really no cognitive load... you can ignore any text in the article you want :-). Also, when you go back to the page, it's all collapsed again anyway, so the next time you read it, you don't need the expounded bits, and it's all compact. It's also just prettier to not have a bunch of lurking controls.
  - StavrosK 10y ago
    Thank you! I think so too. We implemented it, after multiple requests, but I dislike it so much that I decided to not put it in the documentation. It's there if an author chooses to use it, but I'd prefer them not to!

StavrosK 10y ago

Ah, good idea. Right now you get a fade, but that's easy to miss. Of course, the intent is that the expounded text becomes a part of the overall paragraph, so you shouldn't need to know what was just expounded, you just read on, so there's definitely a balance there. Also, the text is very very easy for the website owner to style, with just a single CSS rule. EDIT: I've added some styling information to the page, thanks.

NicoJuicy 10y ago
This is the first time i heard about https://gitcdn.xyz/ https://gitcdn.xyz/ while checking your page source. That's actually a smart idea for a CDN :)
- StavrosK 10y ago
  Yep! We were using rawgit initially, but it went down on the first day for hours, so we changed to that instead.

arikrak 10y ago

Or maybe just use a popup, not sure if inlining it is better.

lfowles 10y ago
Exactly, I was thinking that something like the XKCD What-If notes would be easier on the reader and the writer.