7 ms·

I think you're not doing the math on the stock (which is currently over $550). e.g. $73k base + $21k bonus + $57k stock = $151k for an engineer in their second

by hullo 11y ago

I think you're not doing the math on the stock (which is currently over $550). e.g. $73k base + $21k bonus + $57k stock = $151k for an engineer in their second year (no info about previous experience). Absent a lot of other context it does sound fair to me, or at least not "shockingly low".

tristor 11y ago
I value those things differently, because the bonus is only for the first two years, and the stock is a one-time grant. Just like there's 'no replacement for displacement' in engines, there's no replacement for base salary in compensation. What I'm seeing in that compensation package is no incentive whatsoever to stay after you finish your second year, and no real incentives to start in the first place. $150k in Seattle is not great in my mind anyway, that's roughly equivalent to $90k where I'm living right now, but the average base salary in this area is around $120k...
- hullo 11y ago
  Not an Amazonian, but everything I've ever read about their comp culture has said that stock is heavily valued/weighted, so there's a selection bias there in that anyone who's seriously considered them should know it going in and be alright with it.
- wde-sde 11y ago
  I think I negotiated poorly and only ended up with about $97k total compensation in my first year, and by my third year it was about $120k. The stock seemed like a mind-game to me, but it did work out to about 10% YoY increases in total compensation. It's also inaccurate to characterize the stock as a one-time grant. The initial grant vests over four years (weighted on the last two years) typically you receive more grants after performance reviews, which vest over two years (again weighted on the second year.) So in practice, you get a grant of 200 shares at signing, but by the end of year two only 50 have vested. At that point you have at least one performance grant, so you're probably getting shares vesting pretty regularly, at least four times a year.
- boren_ave11 11y ago
  Stock isn't a one-time thing. RSUs are frequently given during annual performance reviews to employees with good reviews. For my first annual review I received a score of "Exceeds" which is second from the highest. For that, I got 35 RSUs worth roughly $19K when they vest (at current price). In theory, good employees will continue to receive stock grants that vest over time, thus creating incentives to both stay and to perform well.
  - serge2k 11y ago
    Key words, when they vest. I walked away with close to 100k on the table over the next 2 years because I couldn't stand the place anymore. Their golden handcuffs are awful.
- arcticfox 11y ago
  Equivalent to $90k? Do you live in the US? The cost of living for most lifestyles is nowhere near $60k different between Seattle and anywhere in the US.
  - sndean 11y ago
    Using a random cost of living calculator (like this: http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-l...), it looks like many places aren't $60k different. But Atlanta, Dallas, Indianapolis, and lots of other cities are ~$50k different. Rural places are ~$60-70k different.
    - arcticfox 10y ago
      What number are you using?? For $150k, I see Atlanta, Dallas, etc. as $15-20k different, which seems correct.
      - sndean 10y ago
        Going from San Francisco to Dallas, using $150k gives me $81717.69. Meaning the equivalent income to maintain your standard of living in Dallas is $81k, or ~70k less than San Francisco.
  - tristor 10y ago
    I'm in San Antonio, TX. The 7th largest city in the US, but it has one of the lowest costs of living of any major metro area. It's also home to several tech companies, including Rackspace, one of Amazon's primary competitors in the Cloud space.
    - arcticfox 10y ago
      The cost of living calculator posted by SNDean (http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-l...) calculates that 150k in Seattle is ~117k in San Antonio, so that's actually extremely close to the 120k you mentioned as standard.

by hullo 11y ago

tristor 11y ago

I value those things differently, because the bonus is only for the first two years, and the stock is a one-time grant. Just like there's 'no replacement for displacement' in engines, there's no replacement for base salary in compensation. What I'm seeing in that compensation package is no incentive whatsoever to stay after you finish your second year, and no real incentives to start in the first place. $150k in Seattle is not great in my mind anyway, that's roughly equivalent to $90k where I'm living right now, but the average base salary in this area is around $120k...

hullo 11y ago
Not an Amazonian, but everything I've ever read about their comp culture has said that stock is heavily valued/weighted, so there's a selection bias there in that anyone who's seriously considered them should know it going in and be alright with it.
wde-sde 11y ago
I think I negotiated poorly and only ended up with about $97k total compensation in my first year, and by my third year it was about $120k. The stock seemed like a mind-game to me, but it did work out to about 10% YoY increases in total compensation. It's also inaccurate to characterize the stock as a one-time grant. The initial grant vests over four years (weighted on the last two years) typically you receive more grants after performance reviews, which vest over two years (again weighted on the second year.) So in practice, you get a grant of 200 shares at signing, but by the end of year two only 50 have vested. At that point you have at least one performance grant, so you're probably getting shares vesting pretty regularly, at least four times a year.
boren_ave11 11y ago
Stock isn't a one-time thing. RSUs are frequently given during annual performance reviews to employees with good reviews. For my first annual review I received a score of "Exceeds" which is second from the highest. For that, I got 35 RSUs worth roughly $19K when they vest (at current price). In theory, good employees will continue to receive stock grants that vest over time, thus creating incentives to both stay and to perform well.
- serge2k 11y ago
  Key words, when they vest. I walked away with close to 100k on the table over the next 2 years because I couldn't stand the place anymore. Their golden handcuffs are awful.
arcticfox 11y ago
Equivalent to $90k? Do you live in the US? The cost of living for most lifestyles is nowhere near $60k different between Seattle and anywhere in the US.
- sndean 11y ago
  Using a random cost of living calculator (like this: http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-l...), it looks like many places aren't $60k different. But Atlanta, Dallas, Indianapolis, and lots of other cities are ~$50k different. Rural places are ~$60-70k different.
  - arcticfox 10y ago
    What number are you using?? For $150k, I see Atlanta, Dallas, etc. as $15-20k different, which seems correct.
    - sndean 10y ago
      Going from San Francisco to Dallas, using $150k gives me $81717.69. Meaning the equivalent income to maintain your standard of living in Dallas is $81k, or ~70k less than San Francisco.
- tristor 10y ago
  I'm in San Antonio, TX. The 7th largest city in the US, but it has one of the lowest costs of living of any major metro area. It's also home to several tech companies, including Rackspace, one of Amazon's primary competitors in the Cloud space.
  - arcticfox 10y ago
    The cost of living calculator posted by SNDean (http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/savings/moving-cost-of-l...) calculates that 150k in Seattle is ~117k in San Antonio, so that's actually extremely close to the 120k you mentioned as standard.