7 ms·

Trying to work with your analogy... Does that mean H1Bs are the sharks, or the chum?

x5n1 11y ago
H1Bs are our century's slaves, imported to work the tech plantations. Cheaper than locals. Fewer rights. Easier to exploit. And also make their owners a lot of money. In this case they are better off for it, that much has changed.
- jmspring 11y ago
  I'm mixed on your analogy. I would rather argue, H1Bs are the modern day SCABS (union comparison) when you consider Tata and the other body shops. They are there to be used by companies break down wages, remove workers, and ostensibly reduce costs. Reality is, they do displace workers, but over the long terms costs go up due to lost customers and revenue and the need to replace those workers with competent unsourced individuals (happening a lot over the last 3-5 years). This is not speaking to the general H1B individual, only those that places like Tata and IBM have been hiring to "offshore work" and "reduce costs"; and those same companies slowly lose enterprise customers fed up with the lack of quality. HP was another company that took on contracts providing corporate IT services, outsourced them and then found customers firing them and then insourcing talent.
- Swinx43 11y ago
  This is quite a harsh analysis but not too far from the truth. The limitations placed on H1Bs and the fact that you are really easier to exploit is one of the main reasons I have chosen in the past to go to a different country for work. If an H1B had the same rights as say a Tier 1 migrant in the UK you would see A LOT less abuse of this system. A Tier 1 migrant in the UK has total freedom over who they can work for. They are not tied to a particular company and as such can leave for a better job without any administration overhead for them. They also have the ability to start their own company without any restrictions. This places them on equal footing with any local job applicants as they cannot be forced to work for lower than the industry going wage.
  - jzwinck 11y ago
    And how easy is it to get Tier 1 in the UK now? As an American, say.
    - tallanvor 11y ago
      Not that easy, at least, I wasn't able to do so back around 2008 and ended up moving to Norway instead.
    - mirchibajji 11y ago
      Tier-1 General category is now closed. https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-general/overview https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-general/overview I moved to the UK on a Tier-1 in 2010, and it was very straight forward, points based system.
  - gmt2027 11y ago
    Tier 2 migrants are far more common in the UK and subject to similar restrictions as H1B.
  - CamperBob2 11y ago
    Yeah, it's pretty damn far from the truth. If you know of H1B workers who were violently kidnapped in their home countries and stacked like cordwood in the holds of ships bound for slave auctions in America, I'd urge you to log off of HN and contact the appropriate authorities without further delay.
    - x5n1 11y ago
      You forget that the Coolie trade of Indian indentured workers went hand in hand with the slave trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolie
      - CamperBob2 11y ago
        I didn't forget, it's just equally irrelevant. Slavery and other forms of human trafficking are very real issues worldwide, even in the 21st century. It's demeaning (not to mention just plain stupid) to compare H1B workers to slaves.
- drethemadrapper 11y ago
  You rock! So is the issuing of PR permits for some countries.I have been there...
ricksplat 11y ago
They're the freezer stackers
senthil_rajasek 11y ago
You turned this into an H1Bs thing a heartbeat... And this in a country built by and welcoming towards immigrants. Shouldn't we be discussing how to make the industry and the life of H1Bs better?
- theklub 11y ago
  How about first improving the life of our citizens?
  - ambrice 11y ago
    Why is the life of our citizens more important than the life of an immigrant? How about whoever can do the job better and more efficiently?
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - senthil_rajasek 11y ago
    Why are they mutually exclusive?
  - dominotw 11y ago
    When exactly should people immigrate to US ? Did you/your forefathers immigrate when all citizens had perfect life?
- x5n1 11y ago
  Why? That does not make any sense whatsoever. Most corporations that use H1Bs have billions sitting in cash in their bank accounts. They are more than capable of paying for local workers. There is a glut of local workers looking for jobs that can do the work that are for the most part as smart as the immigrants. The work is highly profitable. The skills are present in the local population. Why should anyone want H1Bs in the US at all other than the investors looking for the largest returns for exploiting the poorest people in the world. Ultimately this whole issue is an issue of exploitation at the behest of the owners of America who don't give a shit about its people. Initially they exploited slaves, then they exploited immigrants, now they want to import not even real immigrants to exploit.

x5n1 11y ago

H1Bs are our century's slaves, imported to work the tech plantations. Cheaper than locals. Fewer rights. Easier to exploit. And also make their owners a lot of money. In this case they are better off for it, that much has changed.

jmspring 11y ago
I'm mixed on your analogy. I would rather argue, H1Bs are the modern day SCABS (union comparison) when you consider Tata and the other body shops. They are there to be used by companies break down wages, remove workers, and ostensibly reduce costs. Reality is, they do displace workers, but over the long terms costs go up due to lost customers and revenue and the need to replace those workers with competent unsourced individuals (happening a lot over the last 3-5 years). This is not speaking to the general H1B individual, only those that places like Tata and IBM have been hiring to "offshore work" and "reduce costs"; and those same companies slowly lose enterprise customers fed up with the lack of quality. HP was another company that took on contracts providing corporate IT services, outsourced them and then found customers firing them and then insourcing talent.
Swinx43 11y ago
This is quite a harsh analysis but not too far from the truth. The limitations placed on H1Bs and the fact that you are really easier to exploit is one of the main reasons I have chosen in the past to go to a different country for work. If an H1B had the same rights as say a Tier 1 migrant in the UK you would see A LOT less abuse of this system. A Tier 1 migrant in the UK has total freedom over who they can work for. They are not tied to a particular company and as such can leave for a better job without any administration overhead for them. They also have the ability to start their own company without any restrictions. This places them on equal footing with any local job applicants as they cannot be forced to work for lower than the industry going wage.
- jzwinck 11y ago
  And how easy is it to get Tier 1 in the UK now? As an American, say.
  - tallanvor 11y ago
    Not that easy, at least, I wasn't able to do so back around 2008 and ended up moving to Norway instead.
  - mirchibajji 11y ago
    Tier-1 General category is now closed. https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-general/overview https://www.gov.uk/tier-1-general/overview I moved to the UK on a Tier-1 in 2010, and it was very straight forward, points based system.
- gmt2027 11y ago
  Tier 2 migrants are far more common in the UK and subject to similar restrictions as H1B.
- CamperBob2 11y ago
  Yeah, it's pretty damn far from the truth. If you know of H1B workers who were violently kidnapped in their home countries and stacked like cordwood in the holds of ships bound for slave auctions in America, I'd urge you to log off of HN and contact the appropriate authorities without further delay.
  - x5n1 11y ago
    You forget that the Coolie trade of Indian indentured workers went hand in hand with the slave trade https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coolie
    - CamperBob2 11y ago
      I didn't forget, it's just equally irrelevant. Slavery and other forms of human trafficking are very real issues worldwide, even in the 21st century. It's demeaning (not to mention just plain stupid) to compare H1B workers to slaves.
drethemadrapper 11y ago
You rock! So is the issuing of PR permits for some countries.I have been there...

ricksplat 11y ago

They're the freezer stackers

senthil_rajasek 11y ago

You turned this into an H1Bs thing a heartbeat... And this in a country built by and welcoming towards immigrants. Shouldn't we be discussing how to make the industry and the life of H1Bs better?

theklub 11y ago
How about first improving the life of our citizens?
- ambrice 11y ago
  Why is the life of our citizens more important than the life of an immigrant? How about whoever can do the job better and more efficiently?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- senthil_rajasek 11y ago
  Why are they mutually exclusive?
- dominotw 11y ago
  When exactly should people immigrate to US ? Did you/your forefathers immigrate when all citizens had perfect life?
x5n1 11y ago
Why? That does not make any sense whatsoever. Most corporations that use H1Bs have billions sitting in cash in their bank accounts. They are more than capable of paying for local workers. There is a glut of local workers looking for jobs that can do the work that are for the most part as smart as the immigrants. The work is highly profitable. The skills are present in the local population. Why should anyone want H1Bs in the US at all other than the investors looking for the largest returns for exploiting the poorest people in the world. Ultimately this whole issue is an issue of exploitation at the behest of the owners of America who don't give a shit about its people. Initially they exploited slaves, then they exploited immigrants, now they want to import not even real immigrants to exploit.