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That's why colleges discriminate against whites and asians? I want to be judged and to judge by merit, not by some leftist agenda of "equality". And you come up

by jsf666 11y ago

That's why colleges discriminate against whites and asians? I want to be judged and to judge by merit, not by some leftist agenda of "equality". And you come up with this argument without any proof, only that it's "well-known". I would like to see the numbers, if you may.

frign 11y ago
In Germany, a "study" is often cited saying that men were better paid than women. However, peer review uncovered that the media covering this study omitted the fact that the women also worked less hours than men and thus got less money (obviously). This however does not stop "female-rights-activists" from citing it over and over again. I'm sick of it. I also don't like the notion that women are portraied as victims here. Most women I know don't want to go into tech-jobs because they think it's fucking boring. Live with it, people! I know it's also due to socialization, but do we really want to change the entire society just to shoehorn exactly 50% in our employee statistics? Who benefits from this? I know no woman who is sad because she just can't get hold in a tech job. If a woman is passionate about something, and pursues it, it will work out for her. Same with men of course. Oh, and why don't people go berserk because we have like 96% women as educators (kindergartens, pre-schools, ...). Oh yeah, right, I know, because you can't earn as much money with that.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- lsgrep 11y ago
  the fact that the women also worked less hours than men Why is that? Could it be that women are still subject to traditional roles, even in advanced countries like Germany? http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-equality/files/epo_campaign/country-profile_germany_en.pdf http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-equality/files/epo_campai... Or maybe that women of a certain age are discriminated against during the hiring process because of maternity leave? https://books.google.com/books?id=26FB_ny0tVsC&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=discrimination+against+women+of+childbearing+age+germany&source=bl&ots=7nQHGaSavK&sig=v-e9AjoKhz7PxHzaUOfwPXD_7zw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiz3IXkqu7KAhUMy2MKHbCWA2gQ6AEINjAD#v=onepage&q=child-bearing&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=26FB_ny0tVsC&pg=PA114&lpg=... Or any of those many other reasons that people talk about that explain the statistic? The issue isn't as black and white as you want to make it. I know it's also due to socialization, but do we really want to change the entire society just to shoehorn exactly 50% in our employee statistics? Diversity increases performance. So yes, yes we do. Most women I know don't want to go into tech-jobs because they think it's fucking boring. Live with it, people! I guess all those programmers who were originally women back when men saw it is as "secretary" work and there wasn't a lot of money in it just absolutely found technology boring. Or all those game-designers/programmers who were women, before it became popular and the market crashed? No, you're right, there can be no other explanations. If a woman is passionate about something, and pursues it, it will work out for her. Just have to navigate all that there discrimination and sexual harassment and it'll be totally fine. Oh, and why don't people go berserk because we have like 96% women as educators Perhaps we can discuss why men aren't seeking those positions.
tptacek 11y ago
If you're looking to have a dispassionate and thoughtful conversation about a contentious subject, referring to other people's perspective as a "leftist agenda of 'equality'" isn't a great way to go about it.
- jsf666 11y ago
  Well constantly repeating some unproven theories, pushing them everywhere and harassing everyone who disagrees looks kinda like an agenda
  - tptacek 11y ago
    So what you're saying is that rather than discussing this particular story, you'd like to discuss a different story, one about how you feel when you get into debates with some other group of people. I am not interested in this debate and further feel like it's not remotely germane to this thread, which is why I feel entitled to tell you how uninteresting I find that debate. I suggest you write a story about how you feel harassed by people who seem to have an agenda, and then submit it to HN and see how it does, rather than using this story about Slack and these four engineers as a coatrack.

by jsf666 11y ago

frign 11y ago

In Germany, a "study" is often cited saying that men were better paid than women. However, peer review uncovered that the media covering this study omitted the fact that the women also worked less hours than men and thus got less money (obviously). This however does not stop "female-rights-activists" from citing it over and over again. I'm sick of it. I also don't like the notion that women are portraied as victims here. Most women I know don't want to go into tech-jobs because they think it's fucking boring. Live with it, people! I know it's also due to socialization, but do we really want to change the entire society just to shoehorn exactly 50% in our employee statistics? Who benefits from this? I know no woman who is sad because she just can't get hold in a tech job. If a woman is passionate about something, and pursues it, it will work out for her. Same with men of course. Oh, and why don't people go berserk because we have like 96% women as educators (kindergartens, pre-schools, ...). Oh yeah, right, I know, because you can't earn as much money with that.

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
lsgrep 11y ago
the fact that the women also worked less hours than men Why is that? Could it be that women are still subject to traditional roles, even in advanced countries like Germany? http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-equality/files/epo_campaign/country-profile_germany_en.pdf http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-equality/files/epo_campai... Or maybe that women of a certain age are discriminated against during the hiring process because of maternity leave? https://books.google.com/books?id=26FB_ny0tVsC&pg=PA114&lpg=PA114&dq=discrimination+against+women+of+childbearing+age+germany&source=bl&ots=7nQHGaSavK&sig=v-e9AjoKhz7PxHzaUOfwPXD_7zw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiz3IXkqu7KAhUMy2MKHbCWA2gQ6AEINjAD#v=onepage&q=child-bearing&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=26FB_ny0tVsC&pg=PA114&lpg=... Or any of those many other reasons that people talk about that explain the statistic? The issue isn't as black and white as you want to make it. I know it's also due to socialization, but do we really want to change the entire society just to shoehorn exactly 50% in our employee statistics? Diversity increases performance. So yes, yes we do. Most women I know don't want to go into tech-jobs because they think it's fucking boring. Live with it, people! I guess all those programmers who were originally women back when men saw it is as "secretary" work and there wasn't a lot of money in it just absolutely found technology boring. Or all those game-designers/programmers who were women, before it became popular and the market crashed? No, you're right, there can be no other explanations. If a woman is passionate about something, and pursues it, it will work out for her. Just have to navigate all that there discrimination and sexual harassment and it'll be totally fine. Oh, and why don't people go berserk because we have like 96% women as educators Perhaps we can discuss why men aren't seeking those positions.

tptacek 11y ago

If you're looking to have a dispassionate and thoughtful conversation about a contentious subject, referring to other people's perspective as a "leftist agenda of 'equality'" isn't a great way to go about it.

jsf666 11y ago
Well constantly repeating some unproven theories, pushing them everywhere and harassing everyone who disagrees looks kinda like an agenda
- tptacek 11y ago
  So what you're saying is that rather than discussing this particular story, you'd like to discuss a different story, one about how you feel when you get into debates with some other group of people. I am not interested in this debate and further feel like it's not remotely germane to this thread, which is why I feel entitled to tell you how uninteresting I find that debate. I suggest you write a story about how you feel harassed by people who seem to have an agenda, and then submit it to HN and see how it does, rather than using this story about Slack and these four engineers as a coatrack.