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Maybe I'm just out of the loop, but the author doesn't make it clear what exactly is objectionable about Palantir with respect to privacy issues. That's not to

Maybe I'm just out of the loop, but the author doesn't make it clear what exactly is objectionable about Palantir with respect to privacy issues. That's not to say that there isn't anything, but just that it would be helpful to have a synopsis of what exactly they're doing wrong. I understand that they do work with governments, but that's as much as I've seen in the press. There has been far wider discussion of the privacy challenges facing Facebook and Google.

nraynaud 11y ago
They collect health and financial data on people to help health insurance companies deny claim to people who want their medical expense reimbursed. And they are suspected to be in the chain of data (probably phone data collection and mining) to drone people in Yemen and Afghanistan.
- rabidonrails 11y ago
  Source?
  - tobltobs 11y ago
    Come on, those "Source please" requests for stuff you could google yourself in about 3 seconds are really lame.
    - spiffage 11y ago
      In this case, it's appropriate. Palantir doesn't "collect health and financial data on people", and I've never seen anything in the press that suggests they do.
      - dsp1234 11y ago
        I don't have any information about the other parts of the issue, but they do work in the healthcare industry. https://www.palantir.com/solutions/healthcare-delivery/ https://www.palantir.com/solutions/healthcare-delivery/
        spiffage 11y ago
        Sure. Palantir, like other successful enterprise software companies, has a variety of large, enterprisey customers. But saying that Palantir collects health and financial data on people sounds super scary, when in fact Palantir isn't in the data collection business in the first place.
      - nraynaud 11y ago
        Well, how do you do health care insurance fraud detection without data when your expertise is big data? they might technically just create and manage collection and storage tools for others, but the end goal is that grandpa can't get his cancer treatment reimbursed thanks to data that has been collected on him with the help of Palantir.
      - dtornabene 11y ago
        It's not really though. The "citation please" is usually the first punch in a one-two of cite/attack-source. Palantir analyzes, yes, not collect. But what is done with that data is not exactly innocent either.
        unfamiliar 11y ago
        "Citation please" is a gentle reminder - that pops up whenever someone spouts some unfounded or unverifiable opinion - for people doing so in future to please save us all time and give a source upfront. And from what I've seen, it is usually only applied to comments that can't be backed up.
        dtornabene 11y ago
        Maybe that was a kneejerk on my part. There are times its useful, and in the cold decontextualized space of "online" it can be hard to read. I just want to note it's also used as a kind of attack, often on things that, as the poster I was attempting to support noted, could be discovered with literally the time it takes to open another browser tab.
        nraynaud 11y ago
        you know that precise documentation of the exact role of Palantir in the drone attacks could lead you to jail? Palantir works in Yemen, works with all the agencies involved in drone attacks, has the perfect tools to find a phone to lock a hellfire on according to the quite lax US definition of "terrorist", and is always bragging about its role in the US wars abroad. So yes, every time I hear about Palantir, I suppose they were involved in the bombing of a wedding or of an EMT crew in a far away country, if they did not want to be associated with that, they can cut all their ties with the US wars on brown people, or publicly declare that they are just managing the meals and cleaning supplies.
    - dtornabene 11y ago
      You're getting downvoted but this is a critique thats getting more and more valid, especially around topics that are more likely to provoke emotional responses, like politics, surveillance, etc.
sageabilly 11y ago
Palantir started as a data intelligence firm focusing on predictive analysis, shopping its wares to the government. They have gotten really, really, really amazing at predictive data and are now moving into the private sector, selling predictive analysis tools to healthcare, insurance, security, etc for all kinds of applications. Palantir has technologies that see everything, scrape everything, and store everything. They are not public with all of their products or capabilities, and their choice of bedfellows doesn't inspire confidence that they are altruistic with regards to who they do business with. From what I've heard by way of one-off comments and drunken bragging from people who work/have worked their, their capabilities are far beyond even the remotest of media speculation. Palantir lives the realities of its customers: the NSA, the FBI and the CIA–an early investor through its In-Q-Tel venture fund–along with an alphabet soup of other U.S. counterterrorism and military agencies. In the last five years, Palantir has become the go-to company for mining massive data sets for intelligence and law enforcement applications, with a slick software interface and coders who parachute into clients’ headquarters to customize its programs. Palantir turns messy swamps of information into intuitively visualized maps, histograms and link charts. Give its so-called “forward-deployed engineers” a few days to crawl, tag and integrate every scrap of a customer’s data, and Palantir can elucidate problems as disparate as terrorism, disaster response and human trafficking. Palantir’s advisors include Condoleezza Rice and former CIA director George Tenet, who says in an interview that “I wish we had a tool of its power” before 9/11. General David Petraeus, the most recent former CIA chief, describes Palantir to FORBES as “a better mousetrap when a better mousetrap was needed” and calls Karp “sheer brilliant.” Among those using Palantir to connect the dots are the Marines, who have deployed its tools in Afghanistan for forensic analysis of roadside bombs and predicting insurgent attacks. The software helped locate Mexican drug cartel members who murdered an American customs agent and tracked down hackers who installed spyware on the computer of the Dalai Lama. In the book The Finish, detailing the killing of Osama bin Laden, author Mark Bowden writes that Palantir’s software “actually deserves the popular designation Killer App.” [1] ___________________________ Clients include the Los Angeles Police Department which used Palantir to parse and connect 160 data sets: Everyone from detectives to transit cops to homeland security officials uses Palantir at the LAPD. According to the document, Palantir provides a timeline of events and has helped the massive police department sort its records. As of 2013, Palantir was used by at least 12 groups within the US Government including the CIA, DHS, NSA, FBI, the CDC, the Marine Corps, the Air Force, Special Operations Command, West Point, the Joint IED-defeat organization and Allies, the Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. The Centers for Medicaid and Medicare Services were planning on pilot testing the use of Palantir in 2013 to investigate tips received through a hotline. A second test was run by the same organization to identify potentially fraudulent medical providers in the Southern region of the US. The U.S. spy agencies also employed Palantir to connect databases across departments. Before this, most of the databases used by the CIA and FBI were siloed, forcing users to search each database individually. Now everything is linked together using Palantir. In fact, cyber analysts working for the now-defunct Information Warfare Monitor used the system to mine data on the China-based cyber groups GhostNet and The Shadow Network.[2] [1]http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/08/14/agent-of-intelligence-how-a-deviant-philosopher-built-palantir-a-cia-funded-data-mining-juggernaut/#6e8d59903da8 http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/08/14/agent-o... [2]http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/11/leaked-palantir-doc-reveals-uses-specific-functions-and-key-clients/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/11/leaked-palantir-doc-reveals...
bcg1 11y ago
Among other things, Palantir enjoys exorbitant privilege due to its ties with the US government and its "intelligence" tentacles. It is stands to reason that there is little or no firewall between the taxpayer funded technology/data assets that Palantir has amassed and what they are marketing to private industry. As a state sponsored entity, the burden should be placed on them to ensure transparency, and they should not be given the benefit of the doubt if they fail to assuage such implications. Additionally, it might be good to understand the mentality of an activist or even just a person that is passionate about something. For instance, if you are anti-war, there is no such thing as an ethical defense contractor. If you are an anarchist, there is no such thing as a just government. If you are an activist against "surveillance capitalism" it stands to reason that there is no "good" enterprise that comes out of In-Q-Tel.
nickik 11y ago
Any Tolkin fan can tell you what the problem is, if you look to deep into them, you will be watched by the all knowing eye of NS..ähh.auron.

nraynaud 11y ago

They collect health and financial data on people to help health insurance companies deny claim to people who want their medical expense reimbursed. And they are suspected to be in the chain of data (probably phone data collection and mining) to drone people in Yemen and Afghanistan.

rabidonrails 11y ago
Source?
- tobltobs 11y ago
  Come on, those "Source please" requests for stuff you could google yourself in about 3 seconds are really lame.
  - spiffage 11y ago
    In this case, it's appropriate. Palantir doesn't "collect health and financial data on people", and I've never seen anything in the press that suggests they do.
    - dsp1234 11y ago
      I don't have any information about the other parts of the issue, but they do work in the healthcare industry. https://www.palantir.com/solutions/healthcare-delivery/ https://www.palantir.com/solutions/healthcare-delivery/
      - spiffage 11y ago
        Sure. Palantir, like other successful enterprise software companies, has a variety of large, enterprisey customers. But saying that Palantir collects health and financial data on people sounds super scary, when in fact Palantir isn't in the data collection business in the first place.
    - nraynaud 11y ago
      Well, how do you do health care insurance fraud detection without data when your expertise is big data? they might technically just create and manage collection and storage tools for others, but the end goal is that grandpa can't get his cancer treatment reimbursed thanks to data that has been collected on him with the help of Palantir.
    - dtornabene 11y ago
      It's not really though. The "citation please" is usually the first punch in a one-two of cite/attack-source. Palantir analyzes, yes, not collect. But what is done with that data is not exactly innocent either.
      - unfamiliar 11y ago
        "Citation please" is a gentle reminder - that pops up whenever someone spouts some unfounded or unverifiable opinion - for people doing so in future to please save us all time and give a source upfront. And from what I've seen, it is usually only applied to comments that can't be backed up.
        dtornabene 11y ago
        Maybe that was a kneejerk on my part. There are times its useful, and in the cold decontextualized space of "online" it can be hard to read. I just want to note it's also used as a kind of attack, often on things that, as the poster I was attempting to support noted, could be discovered with literally the time it takes to open another browser tab.
        nraynaud 11y ago
        you know that precise documentation of the exact role of Palantir in the drone attacks could lead you to jail? Palantir works in Yemen, works with all the agencies involved in drone attacks, has the perfect tools to find a phone to lock a hellfire on according to the quite lax US definition of "terrorist", and is always bragging about its role in the US wars abroad. So yes, every time I hear about Palantir, I suppose they were involved in the bombing of a wedding or of an EMT crew in a far away country, if they did not want to be associated with that, they can cut all their ties with the US wars on brown people, or publicly declare that they are just managing the meals and cleaning supplies.
  - dtornabene 11y ago
    You're getting downvoted but this is a critique thats getting more and more valid, especially around topics that are more likely to provoke emotional responses, like politics, surveillance, etc.

sageabilly 11y ago

Palantir started as a data intelligence firm focusing on predictive analysis, shopping its wares to the government. They have gotten really, really, really amazing at predictive data and are now moving into the private sector, selling predictive analysis tools to healthcare, insurance, security, etc for all kinds of applications. Palantir has technologies that see everything, scrape everything, and store everything. They are not public with all of their products or capabilities, and their choice of bedfellows doesn't inspire confidence that they are altruistic with regards to who they do business with. From what I've heard by way of one-off comments and drunken bragging from people who work/have worked their, their capabilities are far beyond even the remotest of media speculation. Palantir lives the realities of its customers: the NSA, the FBI and the CIA–an early investor through its In-Q-Tel venture fund–along with an alphabet soup of other U.S. counterterrorism and military agencies. In the last five years, Palantir has become the go-to company for mining massive data sets for intelligence and law enforcement applications, with a slick software interface and coders who parachute into clients’ headquarters to customize its programs. Palantir turns messy swamps of information into intuitively visualized maps, histograms and link charts. Give its so-called “forward-deployed engineers” a few days to crawl, tag and integrate every scrap of a customer’s data, and Palantir can elucidate problems as disparate as terrorism, disaster response and human trafficking. Palantir’s advisors include Condoleezza Rice and former CIA director George Tenet, who says in an interview that “I wish we had a tool of its power” before 9/11. General David Petraeus, the most recent former CIA chief, describes Palantir to FORBES as “a better mousetrap when a better mousetrap was needed” and calls Karp “sheer brilliant.” Among those using Palantir to connect the dots are the Marines, who have deployed its tools in Afghanistan for forensic analysis of roadside bombs and predicting insurgent attacks. The software helped locate Mexican drug cartel members who murdered an American customs agent and tracked down hackers who installed spyware on the computer of the Dalai Lama. In the book The Finish, detailing the killing of Osama bin Laden, author Mark Bowden writes that Palantir’s software “actually deserves the popular designation Killer App.” [1] ___________________________ Clients include the Los Angeles Police Department which used Palantir to parse and connect 160 data sets: Everyone from detectives to transit cops to homeland security officials uses Palantir at the LAPD. According to the document, Palantir provides a timeline of events and has helped the massive police department sort its records. As of 2013, Palantir was used by at least 12 groups within the US Government including the CIA, DHS, NSA, FBI, the CDC, the Marine Corps, the Air Force, Special Operations Command, West Point, the Joint IED-defeat organization and Allies, the Recovery Accountability and Transparency Board and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. The Centers for Medicaid and Medicare Services were planning on pilot testing the use of Palantir in 2013 to investigate tips received through a hotline. A second test was run by the same organization to identify potentially fraudulent medical providers in the Southern region of the US. The U.S. spy agencies also employed Palantir to connect databases across departments. Before this, most of the databases used by the CIA and FBI were siloed, forcing users to search each database individually. Now everything is linked together using Palantir. In fact, cyber analysts working for the now-defunct Information Warfare Monitor used the system to mine data on the China-based cyber groups GhostNet and The Shadow Network.[2] [1]http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/08/14/agent-of-intelligence-how-a-deviant-philosopher-built-palantir-a-cia-funded-data-mining-juggernaut/#6e8d59903da8 http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/08/14/agent-o... [2]http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/11/leaked-palantir-doc-reveals-uses-specific-functions-and-key-clients/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/01/11/leaked-palantir-doc-reveals...

bcg1 11y ago

Among other things, Palantir enjoys exorbitant privilege due to its ties with the US government and its "intelligence" tentacles. It is stands to reason that there is little or no firewall between the taxpayer funded technology/data assets that Palantir has amassed and what they are marketing to private industry. As a state sponsored entity, the burden should be placed on them to ensure transparency, and they should not be given the benefit of the doubt if they fail to assuage such implications. Additionally, it might be good to understand the mentality of an activist or even just a person that is passionate about something. For instance, if you are anti-war, there is no such thing as an ethical defense contractor. If you are an anarchist, there is no such thing as a just government. If you are an activist against "surveillance capitalism" it stands to reason that there is no "good" enterprise that comes out of In-Q-Tel.

nickik 11y ago

Any Tolkin fan can tell you what the problem is, if you look to deep into them, you will be watched by the all knowing eye of NS..ähh.auron.