6 ms·

I wonder though, do we really have a "prepper culture", or is that phrase merely a rebranding, of traditional (pre WWII) American farm/household values ? For e

I wonder though, do we really have a "prepper culture", or is that phrase merely a rebranding, of traditional (pre WWII) American farm/household values ? For example when I talk to my 80 year old grandmother about what it was like growing up 20 miles outside of a major American metro, she speaks about canning, maintaining a very large pantry, community agriculture, raising animals, making their own clothing, hunting deer and preserving the meat long term, making their own bullets, etc. My suspicion is that what you're observing in rural america is merely a continuation of the ordinary way of life that has always existed here. What I suspect is that over decades PR firms and major brands have executed a rebranding of the old ways, attempting to recast it as 'paranoia culture' or some form of political radicalism. Their campaign likely involves emphasizing the small paranoid faction of this much larger culture on their TV shows and pop media. I hope that doesn't sound like a conspiracy theory, because that's not at all what I mean, it's just an effective marketing technique. After all families who are oriented towards saving for a rainy day don't come into the grocery stores to buy the expensive pre-packaged foodstuffs which drive all the margins. Therefor in order to increase shareholder value you have to find ways to break down the traditional values (and way of life) so that it can be replaced with predictable consumer behaviors and 'brand loyalty'. My point is that the reason why you don't see this in europe isn't because the behaviors are different but merely because the advertising techniques are different in America so the lexicon is different. All of this is starting to change though. A new culture is forming thanks the Internet, and people are starting to care again, about issues like community agriculture. You can start to see it being recognized (in satire) even on the major TV networks. Their airwaves are starting to be jammed by our Internet meme culture, and as a consequence people are beginning to care, again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIWQE4ZpMWI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIWQE4ZpMWI YES IT'S LOCAL GODDAMNIT

f- 11y ago
I honestly don't know; it's interesting that in Europe, the same culture - certainly present in the nineteenth century - has atrophied very quickly after WWII. I'm not sure how to explain that; urbanization? The expansion of the welfare state? Faith in the EU as the promise of enduring peace and prosperity? It happened in most of the Soviet Bloc countries, too, so perhaps the welfare state aspect is key. In the US, my first guess is that it might have been kept alive, even in suburban and urban communities, because of the exposure to the Cold War paranoia, school drills, and so on. "The Russkies" and the specter of the nuclear apocalypse left an ominous mark on the American psyche. But you are right, the desire to capitalize on the phenomenon might have played a role, too. On the flip side, Europe is not a very different market; the buyers are a bit more smug and you can't sell guns, but that's about it - so why aren't we seeing more of the "new" prepper culture cropping up on the other side of the pond?
- hackercomplex 11y ago
  > so why aren't we seeing more of the "new" prepper culture cropping up on the other side of the pond? Maybe it's because there's not as much individual land ownership in Europe because there isn't as much land. In America we have a vast frontier so to speak, plus we've had the act of homesteading as a the cornerstone of our traditional values for a long time. There's room for everyone to have their own little homestead, at least thats been the feeling culturally for a couple of hundred years, and so people today are also prone to think along the lines that traditional homesteaders thought.. well water, garden, dogs, fishing, shotgun, shovel, plow, etc.. maybe even horses if you can afford it. One difference is today people also care about an Internet connection. In my view these people aren't paranoid at all they're just passing on the traditional values.
- TeMPOraL 11y ago
  > On the flip side, Europe is not a very different market; the buyers are a bit more smug and you can't sell guns, but that's about it - so why aren't we seeing more of the "new" prepper culture cropping up on the other side of the pond? It is, slowly. We have a lot of gun enthusiasts, even though they're not gun owners. They visit the shooting range regularly instead. ASG is a popular sport too, and that's pretty much as much firearms combat training as you can get without actual firearms. In my country (Poland), there was a visible uptick of survivalist narratives when the war in Ukraine started (after all, we're next-door neighbors). And while HAM radio is not very popular (though my friends are doing some serious work in changing that), a lot of drivers have CB radios (installed primarily to facilitate breaking traffic laws).
froo 11y ago
> What I suspect is that over decades PR firms and major brands have executed a rebranding of the old ways, attempting to recast it as 'paranoia culture' or some form of political radicalism. Their campaign likely involves emphasizing the small paranoid faction of this much larger culture on their TV shows and pop media. I think that the paranoid culture has evolved relatively organically. As an avid sailor, I've been looking into breaking one of the long standing records of doing multiple circumnavigations back-to-back and food preservation is one area I've been looking into. It's been extremely difficult to find content that isn't interspersed with articles on weapons (and other paranoid subjects) found in a lot of content online, when all I am looking for is food storage ideas.
- hackercomplex 11y ago
  In America firearms aren't considered 'paranoid subjects' because hunting (and fishing) has always been a part of this traditional "wholesome" American culture of which I spoke.. right along with smoking meat, canning vegetables, taking care of animals, etc. After all how else can you keep your chickens and sheep free from natural predators ? To me that's not paranoia
  - froo 11y ago
    > To me that's not paranoia And I don't consider firearms as a broad subject paranoid. It's when talking about the use of firearms to injure other human beings alongside the best way to store flour is where I draw the line. I'm just looking at food storage. I'm not interested in surviving apocalyptic-level events via good old wild-west justice.
    - hackercomplex 11y ago
      You're thinking of circumnavigating but yet you're not psychologically prepared to push back against a boarding party ? Doesn't that mean even a small skiff could overtake you ? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYeVTzPWYAAQuTl.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYeVTzPWYAAQuTl.jpg
dalke 11y ago
Did your grandmother's family have a tractor? If so, where did it, and the fuel, come from? Were they using artificial fertilizers? 80 years ago was 1936 and for her to remember things it was more likely during WWII, so they most certainly weren't using guano. Did she go to school by school bus? Did the family buy things through the Sears catalog, or did her parents or friends drive into the city for shopping? The clothing they made - did they weave the fabric themselves, or buy it? Who made the canning jars, and the seals? Did they produce their own salt? Did they do everything by firewood, or did they use gas or electricity to cook the vegetables for canning? But those are side-details, mostly to get you to thinking about the things she might not have told you about. Consider the Great Mississippi Flood of 1927, which (quoting Wikipedia): > destroyed many homes and devastated the agricultural economy of the Mississippi Basin. Many people were forced to flee to the cities of the Midwest in search of work, contributing to the "Great Migration" of African Americans in the first half of the 20th century. During the flood and the years after it subsided, it became the subject of numerous Delta blues songs, including "When the Levee Breaks", I believe a goal of "prepper culture" is to be able to survive something like that significantly better than the pre-WWII American farmer household did, so I don't think these are the same cultures. There's overlap, certainly, but there's also overlap with modern urban life - my urban relatives in Florida have hurricane plans, which includes stocking reserve food, water, gas, etc., having storm shutters, trimming the trees before the season starts, and more. Thus, if the overlap is enough for you to think that "prepper culture" is the same as pre-WWII American farm values, then I'll argue that it's also the same as modern urban Florida values, and thus rather meaninless - there aren't many TV shows on preparing for hurricane season. > My point is that the reason why you don't see this in europe isn't because the behaviors are different but merely because the advertising techniques are different in America so the lexicon is different. Another possibility is that humans, when they are insecure and threatened, often react by withdrawing and becoming defensive. The US does not have a good social safety net, so many people are worried all the time, about their job, health care, family, and retirement and possible lack thereof. Scared humans are more easily led, and many a firebrand have been able to take advantage of that fear for political and economic gain. While if there is a strong social safety net (as in many places in Europe), and you believe the government will be effective at responding to a natural disasters, then there's less need of a belief to take on the heavier burden of individual planning.

f- 11y ago

I honestly don't know; it's interesting that in Europe, the same culture - certainly present in the nineteenth century - has atrophied very quickly after WWII. I'm not sure how to explain that; urbanization? The expansion of the welfare state? Faith in the EU as the promise of enduring peace and prosperity? It happened in most of the Soviet Bloc countries, too, so perhaps the welfare state aspect is key. In the US, my first guess is that it might have been kept alive, even in suburban and urban communities, because of the exposure to the Cold War paranoia, school drills, and so on. "The Russkies" and the specter of the nuclear apocalypse left an ominous mark on the American psyche. But you are right, the desire to capitalize on the phenomenon might have played a role, too. On the flip side, Europe is not a very different market; the buyers are a bit more smug and you can't sell guns, but that's about it - so why aren't we seeing more of the "new" prepper culture cropping up on the other side of the pond?

hackercomplex 11y ago
> so why aren't we seeing more of the "new" prepper culture cropping up on the other side of the pond? Maybe it's because there's not as much individual land ownership in Europe because there isn't as much land. In America we have a vast frontier so to speak, plus we've had the act of homesteading as a the cornerstone of our traditional values for a long time. There's room for everyone to have their own little homestead, at least thats been the feeling culturally for a couple of hundred years, and so people today are also prone to think along the lines that traditional homesteaders thought.. well water, garden, dogs, fishing, shotgun, shovel, plow, etc.. maybe even horses if you can afford it. One difference is today people also care about an Internet connection. In my view these people aren't paranoid at all they're just passing on the traditional values.
TeMPOraL 11y ago
> On the flip side, Europe is not a very different market; the buyers are a bit more smug and you can't sell guns, but that's about it - so why aren't we seeing more of the "new" prepper culture cropping up on the other side of the pond? It is, slowly. We have a lot of gun enthusiasts, even though they're not gun owners. They visit the shooting range regularly instead. ASG is a popular sport too, and that's pretty much as much firearms combat training as you can get without actual firearms. In my country (Poland), there was a visible uptick of survivalist narratives when the war in Ukraine started (after all, we're next-door neighbors). And while HAM radio is not very popular (though my friends are doing some serious work in changing that), a lot of drivers have CB radios (installed primarily to facilitate breaking traffic laws).

froo 11y ago

> What I suspect is that over decades PR firms and major brands have executed a rebranding of the old ways, attempting to recast it as 'paranoia culture' or some form of political radicalism. Their campaign likely involves emphasizing the small paranoid faction of this much larger culture on their TV shows and pop media. I think that the paranoid culture has evolved relatively organically. As an avid sailor, I've been looking into breaking one of the long standing records of doing multiple circumnavigations back-to-back and food preservation is one area I've been looking into. It's been extremely difficult to find content that isn't interspersed with articles on weapons (and other paranoid subjects) found in a lot of content online, when all I am looking for is food storage ideas.

hackercomplex 11y ago
In America firearms aren't considered 'paranoid subjects' because hunting (and fishing) has always been a part of this traditional "wholesome" American culture of which I spoke.. right along with smoking meat, canning vegetables, taking care of animals, etc. After all how else can you keep your chickens and sheep free from natural predators ? To me that's not paranoia
- froo 11y ago
  > To me that's not paranoia And I don't consider firearms as a broad subject paranoid. It's when talking about the use of firearms to injure other human beings alongside the best way to store flour is where I draw the line. I'm just looking at food storage. I'm not interested in surviving apocalyptic-level events via good old wild-west justice.
  - hackercomplex 11y ago
    You're thinking of circumnavigating but yet you're not psychologically prepared to push back against a boarding party ? Doesn't that mean even a small skiff could overtake you ? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYeVTzPWYAAQuTl.jpg https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CYeVTzPWYAAQuTl.jpg

dalke 11y ago

Did your grandmother's family have a tractor? If so, where did it, and the fuel, come from? Were they using artificial fertilizers? 80 years ago was 1936 and for her to remember things it was more likely during WWII, so they most certainly weren't using guano. Did she go to school by school bus? Did the family buy things through the Sears catalog, or did her parents or friends drive into the city for shopping? The clothing they made - did they weave the fabric themselves, or buy it? Who made the canning jars, and the seals? Did they produce their own salt? Did they do everything by firewood, or did they use gas or electricity to cook the vegetables for canning? But those are side-details, mostly to get you to thinking about the things she might not have told you about. Consider the Great Mississippi Flood of 1927, which (quoting Wikipedia): > destroyed many homes and devastated the agricultural economy of the Mississippi Basin. Many people were forced to flee to the cities of the Midwest in search of work, contributing to the "Great Migration" of African Americans in the first half of the 20th century. During the flood and the years after it subsided, it became the subject of numerous Delta blues songs, including "When the Levee Breaks", I believe a goal of "prepper culture" is to be able to survive something like that significantly better than the pre-WWII American farmer household did, so I don't think these are the same cultures. There's overlap, certainly, but there's also overlap with modern urban life - my urban relatives in Florida have hurricane plans, which includes stocking reserve food, water, gas, etc., having storm shutters, trimming the trees before the season starts, and more. Thus, if the overlap is enough for you to think that "prepper culture" is the same as pre-WWII American farm values, then I'll argue that it's also the same as modern urban Florida values, and thus rather meaninless - there aren't many TV shows on preparing for hurricane season. > My point is that the reason why you don't see this in europe isn't because the behaviors are different but merely because the advertising techniques are different in America so the lexicon is different. Another possibility is that humans, when they are insecure and threatened, often react by withdrawing and becoming defensive. The US does not have a good social safety net, so many people are worried all the time, about their job, health care, family, and retirement and possible lack thereof. Scared humans are more easily led, and many a firebrand have been able to take advantage of that fear for political and economic gain. While if there is a strong social safety net (as in many places in Europe), and you believe the government will be effective at responding to a natural disasters, then there's less need of a belief to take on the heavier burden of individual planning.