8 ms·

If you think that a knife threat should never call for a firearm response then I recommend this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xpcrDzy344 https://www.y

by hebdo 11y ago

If you think that a knife threat should never call for a firearm response then I recommend this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xpcrDzy344 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xpcrDzy344

tptacek 11y ago
I don't think that and don't appreciate the framing you're trying to impose on me. Could you perhaps word comments like this more carefully? What I think is that people armed with firearms give the police much less reaction time, while people armed with knives can, if they're not on a vector that puts them in contact with other officers or civilians, be pacified more gradually.
- pboutros 11y ago
  >I don't think that and don't appreciate the framing you're trying to impose on me. Could you perhaps word comments like this more carefully? This is a fantastic, measured answer - I'm always pleased to see reasonable responses to unreasonable comments.
  - hebdo 11y ago
    Sorry for the choice of words, but my point was that a person armed with just a knife can still be very dangerous. The use of a gun in such a situation cannot be simply called a deadly overreaction, without going into details. Therefore I do not see my comment as unreasonable.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      Nobody called it a "deadly overreaction", so I'm a little confused about this comment.
DanBC 11y ago
If we're trading youtube clips here's a police force who disarm a man armed with a machete. Armed police are available, (the UK has armed police, especially in London) but those police are not needed because our police force is not fucking incompetent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX5CPx4RKWw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX5CPx4RKWw Here's another video of a man wielding a knife and approaching police. In the US he's much more likely to be killed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TFvh6Xps4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TFvh6Xps4
- knowaveragejoe 11y ago
  In the first clip I wouldn't call that "competence" so much as "overwhelming force", something US police use frequently. It's worth noting that at the beginning of the video, an officer is trying to ram the perp with a trashcan found at the scene... It's also worth noting that in the US an officer is much more likely to be killed. Hence why regular people are more likely to be killed by police. It's a fearful, kneejerk reaction thing.
  - newman314 11y ago
    Source please for "in the US an officer is much more likely to be killed"? I took a quick look and found this. [1][2] Looks like number of cop deaths are at a 50 year low but can't find a country by country comparison. [1] http://www.groupnewsblog.net/2014/09/i-saw-posting-on-facebook-which-i-can.html http://www.groupnewsblog.net/2014/09/i-saw-posting-on-facebo... [2] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131230/15411225716/number-officers-killed-line-duty-drops-to-50-year-low-while-number-citizens-killed-cops-remains-unchanged.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131230/15411225716/numbe...
    - knowaveragejoe 11y ago
      It's surely anecdotal, however I have a hard time believing most of Europe, in particular the UK, has more mentally ill and/or drug addicts who are more prone to this kind of behavior than the general populace. You also have a variety of high profile examples of cop-killing in the US that play into this kneejerk reactionary arms race on the part of police.
      - DanBC 11y ago
        > more mentally ill Nice stigma. People with mental illness are not violent; mental illness does not predict violent behaviour. That's about as offensive and ignorant as saying "has more black people and/or drug addicts".
      - newman314 11y ago

by hebdo 11y ago

If you think that a knife threat should never call for a firearm response then I recommend this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xpcrDzy344 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xpcrDzy344

tptacek 11y ago

I don't think that and don't appreciate the framing you're trying to impose on me. Could you perhaps word comments like this more carefully? What I think is that people armed with firearms give the police much less reaction time, while people armed with knives can, if they're not on a vector that puts them in contact with other officers or civilians, be pacified more gradually.

pboutros 11y ago
>I don't think that and don't appreciate the framing you're trying to impose on me. Could you perhaps word comments like this more carefully? This is a fantastic, measured answer - I'm always pleased to see reasonable responses to unreasonable comments.
- hebdo 11y ago
  Sorry for the choice of words, but my point was that a person armed with just a knife can still be very dangerous. The use of a gun in such a situation cannot be simply called a deadly overreaction, without going into details. Therefore I do not see my comment as unreasonable.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    Nobody called it a "deadly overreaction", so I'm a little confused about this comment.

DanBC 11y ago

If we're trading youtube clips here's a police force who disarm a man armed with a machete. Armed police are available, (the UK has armed police, especially in London) but those police are not needed because our police force is not fucking incompetent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX5CPx4RKWw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX5CPx4RKWw Here's another video of a man wielding a knife and approaching police. In the US he's much more likely to be killed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TFvh6Xps4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9TFvh6Xps4

knowaveragejoe 11y ago
In the first clip I wouldn't call that "competence" so much as "overwhelming force", something US police use frequently. It's worth noting that at the beginning of the video, an officer is trying to ram the perp with a trashcan found at the scene... It's also worth noting that in the US an officer is much more likely to be killed. Hence why regular people are more likely to be killed by police. It's a fearful, kneejerk reaction thing.
- newman314 11y ago
  Source please for "in the US an officer is much more likely to be killed"? I took a quick look and found this. [1][2] Looks like number of cop deaths are at a 50 year low but can't find a country by country comparison. [1] http://www.groupnewsblog.net/2014/09/i-saw-posting-on-facebook-which-i-can.html http://www.groupnewsblog.net/2014/09/i-saw-posting-on-facebo... [2] https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131230/15411225716/number-officers-killed-line-duty-drops-to-50-year-low-while-number-citizens-killed-cops-remains-unchanged.shtml https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20131230/15411225716/numbe...
  - knowaveragejoe 11y ago
    It's surely anecdotal, however I have a hard time believing most of Europe, in particular the UK, has more mentally ill and/or drug addicts who are more prone to this kind of behavior than the general populace. You also have a variety of high profile examples of cop-killing in the US that play into this kneejerk reactionary arms race on the part of police.
    - DanBC 11y ago
      > more mentally ill Nice stigma. People with mental illness are not violent; mental illness does not predict violent behaviour. That's about as offensive and ignorant as saying "has more black people and/or drug addicts".
    - newman314 11y ago