6 ms·

How would you work out the visas and taxes though?

kauffj 11y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler There are several countries that will offer you citizenship by investment, including some with visa-free entry to US and Canada. Of course there is no guarantee this will last or that you personally will be able to travel (see Roger Ver).
bduerst 11y ago
I assume they're thinking they'll enter these countries under the pretense of vacationing.
- hackerboos 11y ago
  This is actually the big lie of being a Digital Nomad. It's not legal. As a US citizen there are only a handful of countries/territories that you can work legally without any sort of paperwork (Puerto Rico, USVI, Samoa) and a handful more that have official working holiday schemes: - Singapore - New Zealand - Australia - South Korea - Ireland If you are in the EU citizen you can work freely within the EU. However most folks aren't writing about working holiday visas or working within the EU. They are writing about South East Asia and Central/South America. Neither of which allow people to go and work without permits. People are breaking the law and being way too public about it.
  - grecy 11y ago
    That doesn't apply because you're not working for a company in the country you're working in. i.e. if you're American, and you visit Australia on a tourist visa and work for an American company while doing so, that's perfectly fine. If you wanted to work for an Australian company and earn Australian dollars, you'd need a work visa which is a whole 'nother thing.
    - hackerboos 11y ago
      That's simply not true. It doesn't matter where your employer is based [1]. "if you have a tourist visa, you cannot work at all;" [1] - http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/2140/are-you-legally-allowed-to-work-in-australia.aspx http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/2140/are-you-legally-allo...
      - 11thEarlOfMar 11y ago
        Pretty sure that page is presuming the employer is Australian. That makes all the difference.
        hackerboos 11y ago
        "Pretty sure" is something people should confirm before travelling to these places, no?
        11thEarlOfMar 11y ago
        True.
      - grecy 11y ago
        Another comment in this thread makes it clear permission was asked in multiple countries, and every country was perfectly OK with it.
        hackerboos 11y ago
        Anecdotes aren't evidence.
        grecy 11y ago
        You're correct. That person calling each embassy separately and asking them is evidence.
  - 11thEarlOfMar 11y ago
    See jrallison comment. If the employer is in the country you are visiting, you are correct. But if the employer is in a different country also (that is my thinking), then I'd expect there is no visa issue because the employer has no tax obligation to that country. It would be the same as if I vacationed in a different country, but responded to work e-mail for my US employer. If that is not true, I'd be glad to know.
  - jrallison 11y ago
    It's totally legal everywhere I've visited (and I don't know a country where it's illegal). Work visas are a thing because countries want to control the ability for foreigners to compete with locals for local jobs. Canada's definition of work (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/temp/work/about.asp http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/temp/work/about...): "What kind of activities are not considered to be “work”? An activity which does not really ‘take away’ from opportunities for Canadians or permanent residents to gain employment or experience in the workplace is not “work” for the purposes of the definition." Working for my own US company isn't competitive to local workers. Every country I've visited has a similar definition, though I can't say for sure if every country does, so it's best to check before attempting to go.
    - hackerboos 11y ago
      Erm. From the source you just cited '"Work" is defined in the Regulations as an activity for which wages are paid or commission is earned' On another Canadian immigration page: "Most visitors to Canada cannot work or study in Canada without a permit." http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/extend-stay.asp http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/extend-stay.asp It's problematic that most countries immigration websites don't explicitly point out that working for a company abroad or for yourself is not permitted on visitor visas, but if you write to their respective embassies then you will find this to be the case.
      - jrallison 11y ago
        I have, quite often. :) I've always gotten the answer from officials "if you aren't competing with local workers, you're fine". As always, depends on the country. Further down the source I just cited: "Examples of activities for which a person would not normally be remunerated or which would not compete directly with Canadian citizens or Permanent Residents in the Canadian labour market and which would normally be part-time or incidental to the reason that the person is in Canada include, but are not limited to: long distance (by telephone or internet) work done by a temporary resident whose employer is outside Canada and who is remunerated from outside Canada;" It's the definition of "work", whether you're competing with locals, and whether you're being paid by a Canadian company. Many countries don't have this clearly documented, as until very recently (last 10-15 years), the only real "work" was competitive with local citizens/residents. All work visa documentation is written with this implied definition. Many countries are starting to call this out as an exception (like Canada above, Thailand recently, etc, etc). Until it's clear for a particular country, it's best to talk to an official.
11thEarlOfMar 11y ago
I'd remain a citizen of the US, so I'd still owe taxes to the US. Then, use a family member's address as a home address for official documents. Visas would take some planning for countries requiring a visa for your passport. Many cities have consulates that you can go to. For example, if you were in Tokyo and wanted to go to Bankok next and needed a visa for Thailand, you'd head over to the Thai consulate near Meguro station to complete the formalities. I suppose I may be skirting local employment laws in some places, on the other hand, my employer is not likely based in that country and would therefore have no tax reporting obligations.
jrallison 11y ago
Did almost exactly this for all of 2014 (part of 2015). With a US citizenship, and visited 10 countries for a month+. Working remotely for a foreign corporation generally isn't against the terms of a tourist visa (consult the specific country you're visiting). All officials I asked had no problem with it, from South America/Asia/Europe (Germany will actually let you stay longer, up to 2 years, if you're a remote worker/freelancer). You do need a work visa if you're planning to do work for a company that exists locally (competing with the locals, etc). It was hugely income tax advantageous. There's a huge US tax credit if you aren't living in the US (your first $95-120k tax free), and I wasn't staying long enough in any country to meet their reporting requirements.
- 11thEarlOfMar 11y ago
  What types of places did you stay in? I had forgotten the income tax advantage for expatriates. Makes it even more compelling.
  - jrallison 11y ago
    Mostly Airbnb's, an occasional hostel/hotel if I didn't plan ahead. My routine when arriving in a new country would be to quickly find a place to stay and a coworking space, then explore the city/country when I wasn't working.
- pimlottc 11y ago
  Does this mean you did not have to file for local income tax in any of your host countries?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_traveler There are several countries that will offer you citizenship by investment, including some with visa-free entry to US and Canada. Of course there is no guarantee this will last or that you personally will be able to travel (see Roger Ver).

bduerst 11y ago

I assume they're thinking they'll enter these countries under the pretense of vacationing.

hackerboos 11y ago
This is actually the big lie of being a Digital Nomad. It's not legal. As a US citizen there are only a handful of countries/territories that you can work legally without any sort of paperwork (Puerto Rico, USVI, Samoa) and a handful more that have official working holiday schemes: - Singapore - New Zealand - Australia - South Korea - Ireland If you are in the EU citizen you can work freely within the EU. However most folks aren't writing about working holiday visas or working within the EU. They are writing about South East Asia and Central/South America. Neither of which allow people to go and work without permits. People are breaking the law and being way too public about it.
- grecy 11y ago
  That doesn't apply because you're not working for a company in the country you're working in. i.e. if you're American, and you visit Australia on a tourist visa and work for an American company while doing so, that's perfectly fine. If you wanted to work for an Australian company and earn Australian dollars, you'd need a work visa which is a whole 'nother thing.
  - hackerboos 11y ago
    That's simply not true. It doesn't matter where your employer is based [1]. "if you have a tourist visa, you cannot work at all;" [1] - http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/2140/are-you-legally-allowed-to-work-in-australia.aspx http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/2140/are-you-legally-allo...
    - 11thEarlOfMar 11y ago
      Pretty sure that page is presuming the employer is Australian. That makes all the difference.
      - hackerboos 11y ago
        "Pretty sure" is something people should confirm before travelling to these places, no?
        11thEarlOfMar 11y ago
        True.
    - grecy 11y ago
      Another comment in this thread makes it clear permission was asked in multiple countries, and every country was perfectly OK with it.
      - hackerboos 11y ago
        Anecdotes aren't evidence.
        grecy 11y ago
        You're correct. That person calling each embassy separately and asking them is evidence.
- 11thEarlOfMar 11y ago
  See jrallison comment. If the employer is in the country you are visiting, you are correct. But if the employer is in a different country also (that is my thinking), then I'd expect there is no visa issue because the employer has no tax obligation to that country. It would be the same as if I vacationed in a different country, but responded to work e-mail for my US employer. If that is not true, I'd be glad to know.
- jrallison 11y ago
  It's totally legal everywhere I've visited (and I don't know a country where it's illegal). Work visas are a thing because countries want to control the ability for foreigners to compete with locals for local jobs. Canada's definition of work (http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/temp/work/about.asp http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/resources/tools/temp/work/about...): "What kind of activities are not considered to be “work”? An activity which does not really ‘take away’ from opportunities for Canadians or permanent residents to gain employment or experience in the workplace is not “work” for the purposes of the definition." Working for my own US company isn't competitive to local workers. Every country I've visited has a similar definition, though I can't say for sure if every country does, so it's best to check before attempting to go.
  - hackerboos 11y ago
    Erm. From the source you just cited '"Work" is defined in the Regulations as an activity for which wages are paid or commission is earned' On another Canadian immigration page: "Most visitors to Canada cannot work or study in Canada without a permit." http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/extend-stay.asp http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/visit/extend-stay.asp It's problematic that most countries immigration websites don't explicitly point out that working for a company abroad or for yourself is not permitted on visitor visas, but if you write to their respective embassies then you will find this to be the case.
    - jrallison 11y ago
      I have, quite often. :) I've always gotten the answer from officials "if you aren't competing with local workers, you're fine". As always, depends on the country. Further down the source I just cited: "Examples of activities for which a person would not normally be remunerated or which would not compete directly with Canadian citizens or Permanent Residents in the Canadian labour market and which would normally be part-time or incidental to the reason that the person is in Canada include, but are not limited to: long distance (by telephone or internet) work done by a temporary resident whose employer is outside Canada and who is remunerated from outside Canada;" It's the definition of "work", whether you're competing with locals, and whether you're being paid by a Canadian company. Many countries don't have this clearly documented, as until very recently (last 10-15 years), the only real "work" was competitive with local citizens/residents. All work visa documentation is written with this implied definition. Many countries are starting to call this out as an exception (like Canada above, Thailand recently, etc, etc). Until it's clear for a particular country, it's best to talk to an official.

11thEarlOfMar 11y ago

I'd remain a citizen of the US, so I'd still owe taxes to the US. Then, use a family member's address as a home address for official documents. Visas would take some planning for countries requiring a visa for your passport. Many cities have consulates that you can go to. For example, if you were in Tokyo and wanted to go to Bankok next and needed a visa for Thailand, you'd head over to the Thai consulate near Meguro station to complete the formalities. I suppose I may be skirting local employment laws in some places, on the other hand, my employer is not likely based in that country and would therefore have no tax reporting obligations.

jrallison 11y ago

Did almost exactly this for all of 2014 (part of 2015). With a US citizenship, and visited 10 countries for a month+. Working remotely for a foreign corporation generally isn't against the terms of a tourist visa (consult the specific country you're visiting). All officials I asked had no problem with it, from South America/Asia/Europe (Germany will actually let you stay longer, up to 2 years, if you're a remote worker/freelancer). You do need a work visa if you're planning to do work for a company that exists locally (competing with the locals, etc). It was hugely income tax advantageous. There's a huge US tax credit if you aren't living in the US (your first $95-120k tax free), and I wasn't staying long enough in any country to meet their reporting requirements.

11thEarlOfMar 11y ago
What types of places did you stay in? I had forgotten the income tax advantage for expatriates. Makes it even more compelling.
- jrallison 11y ago
  Mostly Airbnb's, an occasional hostel/hotel if I didn't plan ahead. My routine when arriving in a new country would be to quickly find a place to stay and a coworking space, then explore the city/country when I wasn't working.
pimlottc 11y ago
Does this mean you did not have to file for local income tax in any of your host countries?