6 ms·

Did you actually see the pics on the link? Do you think a person indoctrinated since birth to hating / wanting to kill the infidels, can be "fixed" 2 or 3 decad

by twobits 11y ago

Did you actually see the pics on the link? Do you think a person indoctrinated since birth to hating / wanting to kill the infidels, can be "fixed" 2 or 3 decades later? I think it's a losing game, at the extremely very best. As for the quality of the daily mail, I don't know, but those photos have been posted on various news sites around the net. They are not disputed at all.

scrollaway 11y ago
I'm not disputing the photos, I'm disputing the source. The Daily Mail has an agenda and constantly tries to show the worst of the worst of any situation. Are those kids actually coming to europe in waves of immigration? If not, why do they matter in talks of immigration? And let's imagine for a moment they are - is denying them entry the right approach? Leave them in whatever neighbouring country they happen to be in at the time? These kids can be fixed. They're not wielding weapons because they're inherently evil. They were raised in a terrible environment and need to be treated like other, non-immigrant kids raised in terrible environments. We don't give up on people just because they're from somewhere else. We are all humans. This doesn't merely mean that we should treat each individual as a human being - it also means that we should treat our neighbouring countries as we would want our own country to be.
- twobits 11y ago
  We don't know who is coming. I don't want to learn in the Paris way. And I think the probability for that kind of events is scarily high. I didn't say they are "inherently evil". I say they are being taught since birth to be evil, and they naturally internalize it. "Being from somewhere else" being a problem, is totally irrelevant, I didn't say or believe that, and you are distracting from the real issue of what are their learnt since birth values and beliefs. "We are all humans." Well, my VM is running Linux. Maybe I should try win 3.11. After all, "they are all OSes". Maybe I should try to "improve" and "integrate" it. Or maybe I will continue running Linux.
  - scrollaway 11y ago
    > "We are all humans." Well, my VM is running Linux. Maybe I should try win 3.11. After all, "they are all OSes". Maybe I should try to "improve" and "integrate" it. Or maybe I will continue running Linux. I would actually like to think that I'm having a discussion with someone who is above such ridiculous analogies. I wouldn't even say "racist" but you did just compare "immigrants" to "a primitive operating system nobody wants to use". To address your other point: I'm french, and my sister lost somebody in the Paris attacks. This doesn't mean we have to close ourselves down in a bubble. I'll elaborate on this another time (maybe when you come up with better arguments) - but the mentality of closing borders for fear of what might come through is akin to never going out for fear of hitting a car. And car accidents happen a fuckton more than terrorist attacks.
dagw 11y ago
I've known lots of kids that where indoctrinated since birth with all kinds of political and/or religious beliefs. Most of them had pretty much grown out of them by their early 20's, and even the ones that didn't ended up much more nuanced in their beliefs than their parents.
- twobits 11y ago
  Indeed, but a) you need to have the seed of having an open mind, that can help you later on. If you learnt to have a closed mind, then it's a fortress new ideas can't come in. b) There is a upper limit of mixing proportions, above which the incoming mass of people is just too high, they stick together, and don't change / mix up with the existing population. This invasion is too big, too fast, for possible integration.
  - scrollaway 11y ago
    I don't know if this is your intention but the way you talk about immigration as if it's a virus whose spread needs to be contained is frankly disgusting. What do you think will happen when "too many muslims" cross the border? Sharia law? Even in Turkey, a country nearly 99% muslim, only 12% favour Sharia law. (source: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-...)
    - leaveyou 11y ago
      It's sad but I find your fervor trying to shame others to think like you because your ideas seem noble quite disgusting too. "Let's all rush and make cultural and social experiments because some guys want to feel good and we should be ashamed of ourselves if our instinct of cultural/ethnic conservation tells us to oppose radical change of our societies". I already know what happened when too many muslims crossed the border in your country and you don't have any right to impose me to do the same in my country.
      - 11y ago

by twobits 11y ago

scrollaway 11y ago

I'm not disputing the photos, I'm disputing the source. The Daily Mail has an agenda and constantly tries to show the worst of the worst of any situation. Are those kids actually coming to europe in waves of immigration? If not, why do they matter in talks of immigration? And let's imagine for a moment they are - is denying them entry the right approach? Leave them in whatever neighbouring country they happen to be in at the time? These kids can be fixed. They're not wielding weapons because they're inherently evil. They were raised in a terrible environment and need to be treated like other, non-immigrant kids raised in terrible environments. We don't give up on people just because they're from somewhere else. We are all humans. This doesn't merely mean that we should treat each individual as a human being - it also means that we should treat our neighbouring countries as we would want our own country to be.

twobits 11y ago
We don't know who is coming. I don't want to learn in the Paris way. And I think the probability for that kind of events is scarily high. I didn't say they are "inherently evil". I say they are being taught since birth to be evil, and they naturally internalize it. "Being from somewhere else" being a problem, is totally irrelevant, I didn't say or believe that, and you are distracting from the real issue of what are their learnt since birth values and beliefs. "We are all humans." Well, my VM is running Linux. Maybe I should try win 3.11. After all, "they are all OSes". Maybe I should try to "improve" and "integrate" it. Or maybe I will continue running Linux.
- scrollaway 11y ago
  > "We are all humans." Well, my VM is running Linux. Maybe I should try win 3.11. After all, "they are all OSes". Maybe I should try to "improve" and "integrate" it. Or maybe I will continue running Linux. I would actually like to think that I'm having a discussion with someone who is above such ridiculous analogies. I wouldn't even say "racist" but you did just compare "immigrants" to "a primitive operating system nobody wants to use". To address your other point: I'm french, and my sister lost somebody in the Paris attacks. This doesn't mean we have to close ourselves down in a bubble. I'll elaborate on this another time (maybe when you come up with better arguments) - but the mentality of closing borders for fear of what might come through is akin to never going out for fear of hitting a car. And car accidents happen a fuckton more than terrorist attacks.

dagw 11y ago

I've known lots of kids that where indoctrinated since birth with all kinds of political and/or religious beliefs. Most of them had pretty much grown out of them by their early 20's, and even the ones that didn't ended up much more nuanced in their beliefs than their parents.

twobits 11y ago
Indeed, but a) you need to have the seed of having an open mind, that can help you later on. If you learnt to have a closed mind, then it's a fortress new ideas can't come in. b) There is a upper limit of mixing proportions, above which the incoming mass of people is just too high, they stick together, and don't change / mix up with the existing population. This invasion is too big, too fast, for possible integration.
- scrollaway 11y ago
  I don't know if this is your intention but the way you talk about immigration as if it's a virus whose spread needs to be contained is frankly disgusting. What do you think will happen when "too many muslims" cross the border? Sharia law? Even in Turkey, a country nearly 99% muslim, only 12% favour Sharia law. (source: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-islam-key-findings-in-the-u-s-and-around-the-world/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/12/07/muslims-and-...)
  - leaveyou 11y ago
    It's sad but I find your fervor trying to shame others to think like you because your ideas seem noble quite disgusting too. "Let's all rush and make cultural and social experiments because some guys want to feel good and we should be ashamed of ourselves if our instinct of cultural/ethnic conservation tells us to oppose radical change of our societies". I already know what happened when too many muslims crossed the border in your country and you don't have any right to impose me to do the same in my country.
    - 11y ago