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Electronic music still hasn't found anything near an ideal mode of performance -- this guy's guitar may provide a glimpse into how that can be achieved. Imagin

Electronic music still hasn't found anything near an ideal mode of performance -- this guy's guitar may provide a glimpse into how that can be achieved. Imagine a dionysian Jimmy Page up on stage, orchestrating a wall full of synth processors on this light-saber of an instrument. Much more compelling than the DJ-style performer stuck behind a control console.

wheels 17y ago
This is far from state of the art for electronic music controllers; really it looks like a toy. Synthesizer controllers / triggers that look like normal instruments have been around (and used in performance) for 50+ years. And then there are things like the theramin, which came out in 1928, which is a physical synth controller.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
  - wheels 17y ago
    The most common instance is of course in keyboards, which seems somewhat natural since it's an interface that was an abstraction far before the digital age -- having been used to such disparate instruments as pianos and pipe organs. For stringed instruments, what's been common for some time is MIDI pickups on either guitars or (less frequently) on basses. Then they can either be used to drive a synth or you can take the normal analog out. MIDI drum pads or MIDI triggers on acoustic drums are also common. I think much of the appeal for musicians with many years of playing behind them is that they don't have to master a new interface for music input. I've played bass for 15 years; I can do a lot of phrasing intuitively that's much more tedious to enter by hand into a sequencer or to play on an electronic-specialized instrument that I don't have mastery of. Granted, I don't actually have a MIDI bass pickup, but I've been tempted. In Squarepusher's music, for example, you can often hear in his synth lines that they were played on an electric bass (which he's exceptional at) because the phrasing is much more idiomatic to an electric bass than to a keyboard.
    - anigbrowl 17y ago
      I don't actually have a MIDI bass pickup, but I've been tempted. Do it. I'm a crap bassist but I run the audio output into a Nord Modular and use pitch analysis to generate MIDI that goes to the drum machine (or whatever), and it's great for coming up with things I wouldn't necessarily do on the keyboard. If you're good at bass you'll get that much more out of it with per-string control.
      - nerme 17y ago
        I'm very interested in the state of audio -> MIDI... right now I'm using Max/MSP (the fiddle~ object) for pitch analysis, but it leaves a lot to be desired. Eventide makes some great pitch related tools and the PitchFactor stomp box seems to be much more quick and accurate than anything else out there... unfortunately it doesn't have MIDI out, AFAIK. How quick and accurate is the Nord Modular for pitch analysis?
        wheels 17y ago
        The synth stomp boxes in general work pretty well so long as there's only a single fundamental (note) that has to be picked up, but they don't do well with chording. The advantage of the on-board pickups is of course having one pickup per string, but also that they're designed with a specific signal profile in mind (i.e. how far those pickups will be from the strings) and with the dynamics of that instrument involved (i.e. the difference between picking up a signal in an electric bass vs. a flute).
        anigbrowl 17y ago
        Well, it's pretty good, though as wheels says, no real time pitch-detection algorithm can do much of a job with chords. Since bass is most often played monophonically, it does OK; then again I'm not a fast player to begin with. I use a configuration of modules that implements a (very crude) averaging algorithm to smooth away the tiny pitch quirks from the way I slide or hit the strings, and then a note selector module to confine the output to semitone intervals, for when I want to control a different module or produce a completely different sound. On the other hand, if I want to play a melody and have it sound bassy to begin with (with the kind of pitch inconsistencies from slapping or pulling the strings) the sky's the limit. It's also fun to set the synth doing its own thing and then use the notes to modulate filters or suchlike. But MIDI pickup is still the route to go if accuracy really matters to you. Everything I record is done with the assumption that I'm going to edit it later. The 'midi guitar' thing cited in OP would probably do a superior job, but I really don't like the ergonomics of it. Another option is to hit eBay in search of a Casio DG-20, an appallingly ugly MIDI guitar from the 1980s that nevertheless has an outstanding midi implementation, or a Yamaha EZ-AG, which sells for $2-300 and has buttons on the frets but real strings on the 'soundboard' and is designed for students. They also made a MIDI trumpet if you can find it.
- aristoxenus 17y ago
  What's great about his axe isn't that it looks like a normal instrument -- it's the way it maps touchscreen interfacing to the guitar form. I'm an electronic musician too and have seen plenty of history and modern experimentation; something that takes his touchscreen-guitar idea to the next level (full touchscreen neck?) has much more expressive potential than a normal guitar with a MIDI-transcribing pickup. Plus it doesn't throw away one of the biggest lessons of rock: people will scream for a guy with a guitar in a way that they won't for someone behind a piano (or god forbid, a theremin).
anigbrowl 17y ago
Check out Squarepusher, who has been doing this for years, but using an actual bass guitar with MIDIfied pickups to drive the stack of synths (in addition to being a sound source in its own right). Or if you want total eye candy, Jean Michelle-Jarre likes to control a wall of synths with a laser harp. That said, I have no problem with keyboardists or knob-twiddling...perhaps because I'm not especially moved by stage theatrics or arena-size performance.
- z8000 17y ago
  Some say that Tom learned his trade from Richard and then became the true electronic music master. I love how he incorporates bass into electronic music. Just excellent.
- wheels 17y ago
  Interesting historical note: it was someone much further from electronica that originally popularized MIDI bass: Phil Lesh, of The Grateful Dead, while Tom Jenkinson (Squarepusher) was still a kid.
tbgvi 17y ago
You'll be interested in the JazzMutant Lemur - a touchscreen MIDI controller for live DJ performances. Some well known DJ's like Deadmau5 use it - that's how I first heard about it. Check it out at http://www.jazzmutant.com http://www.jazzmutant.com A video of it in action is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_BMnwIbWJw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_BMnwIbWJw

wheels 17y ago

This is far from state of the art for electronic music controllers; really it looks like a toy. Synthesizer controllers / triggers that look like normal instruments have been around (and used in performance) for 50+ years. And then there are things like the theramin, which came out in 1928, which is a physical synth controller.

deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
- wheels 17y ago
  The most common instance is of course in keyboards, which seems somewhat natural since it's an interface that was an abstraction far before the digital age -- having been used to such disparate instruments as pianos and pipe organs. For stringed instruments, what's been common for some time is MIDI pickups on either guitars or (less frequently) on basses. Then they can either be used to drive a synth or you can take the normal analog out. MIDI drum pads or MIDI triggers on acoustic drums are also common. I think much of the appeal for musicians with many years of playing behind them is that they don't have to master a new interface for music input. I've played bass for 15 years; I can do a lot of phrasing intuitively that's much more tedious to enter by hand into a sequencer or to play on an electronic-specialized instrument that I don't have mastery of. Granted, I don't actually have a MIDI bass pickup, but I've been tempted. In Squarepusher's music, for example, you can often hear in his synth lines that they were played on an electric bass (which he's exceptional at) because the phrasing is much more idiomatic to an electric bass than to a keyboard.
  - anigbrowl 17y ago
    I don't actually have a MIDI bass pickup, but I've been tempted. Do it. I'm a crap bassist but I run the audio output into a Nord Modular and use pitch analysis to generate MIDI that goes to the drum machine (or whatever), and it's great for coming up with things I wouldn't necessarily do on the keyboard. If you're good at bass you'll get that much more out of it with per-string control.
    - nerme 17y ago
      I'm very interested in the state of audio -> MIDI... right now I'm using Max/MSP (the fiddle~ object) for pitch analysis, but it leaves a lot to be desired. Eventide makes some great pitch related tools and the PitchFactor stomp box seems to be much more quick and accurate than anything else out there... unfortunately it doesn't have MIDI out, AFAIK. How quick and accurate is the Nord Modular for pitch analysis?
      - wheels 17y ago
        The synth stomp boxes in general work pretty well so long as there's only a single fundamental (note) that has to be picked up, but they don't do well with chording. The advantage of the on-board pickups is of course having one pickup per string, but also that they're designed with a specific signal profile in mind (i.e. how far those pickups will be from the strings) and with the dynamics of that instrument involved (i.e. the difference between picking up a signal in an electric bass vs. a flute).
      - anigbrowl 17y ago
        Well, it's pretty good, though as wheels says, no real time pitch-detection algorithm can do much of a job with chords. Since bass is most often played monophonically, it does OK; then again I'm not a fast player to begin with. I use a configuration of modules that implements a (very crude) averaging algorithm to smooth away the tiny pitch quirks from the way I slide or hit the strings, and then a note selector module to confine the output to semitone intervals, for when I want to control a different module or produce a completely different sound. On the other hand, if I want to play a melody and have it sound bassy to begin with (with the kind of pitch inconsistencies from slapping or pulling the strings) the sky's the limit. It's also fun to set the synth doing its own thing and then use the notes to modulate filters or suchlike. But MIDI pickup is still the route to go if accuracy really matters to you. Everything I record is done with the assumption that I'm going to edit it later. The 'midi guitar' thing cited in OP would probably do a superior job, but I really don't like the ergonomics of it. Another option is to hit eBay in search of a Casio DG-20, an appallingly ugly MIDI guitar from the 1980s that nevertheless has an outstanding midi implementation, or a Yamaha EZ-AG, which sells for $2-300 and has buttons on the frets but real strings on the 'soundboard' and is designed for students. They also made a MIDI trumpet if you can find it.
aristoxenus 17y ago
What's great about his axe isn't that it looks like a normal instrument -- it's the way it maps touchscreen interfacing to the guitar form. I'm an electronic musician too and have seen plenty of history and modern experimentation; something that takes his touchscreen-guitar idea to the next level (full touchscreen neck?) has much more expressive potential than a normal guitar with a MIDI-transcribing pickup. Plus it doesn't throw away one of the biggest lessons of rock: people will scream for a guy with a guitar in a way that they won't for someone behind a piano (or god forbid, a theremin).

anigbrowl 17y ago

Check out Squarepusher, who has been doing this for years, but using an actual bass guitar with MIDIfied pickups to drive the stack of synths (in addition to being a sound source in its own right). Or if you want total eye candy, Jean Michelle-Jarre likes to control a wall of synths with a laser harp. That said, I have no problem with keyboardists or knob-twiddling...perhaps because I'm not especially moved by stage theatrics or arena-size performance.

z8000 17y ago
Some say that Tom learned his trade from Richard and then became the true electronic music master. I love how he incorporates bass into electronic music. Just excellent.
wheels 17y ago
Interesting historical note: it was someone much further from electronica that originally popularized MIDI bass: Phil Lesh, of The Grateful Dead, while Tom Jenkinson (Squarepusher) was still a kid.

tbgvi 17y ago

You'll be interested in the JazzMutant Lemur - a touchscreen MIDI controller for live DJ performances. Some well known DJ's like Deadmau5 use it - that's how I first heard about it. Check it out at http://www.jazzmutant.com http://www.jazzmutant.com A video of it in action is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_BMnwIbWJw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_BMnwIbWJw