7 ms·

Ugg. I'm sorry about being negative but here are some protips: 1. If a manager leaves work unassigned and you pick it up, prepare to have a LOT more work dump

Ugg. I'm sorry about being negative but here are some protips: 1. If a manager leaves work unassigned and you pick it up, prepare to have a LOT more work dumped on you in the future for no reward. 2. If you pretend to be a manager with hopes of being made a manager, all that you will accomplish is you are going to end up doing your job AND your bosses job. Your boss will look like a hero to his/her peers. You'll kill yourself and won't be made a manager regardless. A better approach is to be smart about it. Always negotiate the work and what you're going to get out of it ahead of time. Maybe you just get some political capital, praise, or a positive review. Don't just blindly do work you weren't asked to do thinking it will be rewarded.

j_jochem 11y ago
This really depends on the organization you're working for. If you're in a competitive corporate environment with lots of pusing and shoving, your interpretation is probably correct. If you work in a place that has flat hierarchies and lots of employee autonomy, the original blog author is probably right.
kabouseng 11y ago
If I may, here is some of my protips: - The best route up is hitching your wagon to your bosses wagon. So yes doing some of his work will make him look like a hero, which will get him promoted, and he'll think who is his most valuable / productive underling, which will get you promoted. Hopefully you doing some of his work free's up his time to be more productive in other areas. If your boss is a lazy PHB (Dilbert), get another job. - It is far more difficult to try and get promoted around your boss. Don't try this, it doesn't work. - Reward isn't always immediate. A previous manager of mine's advice was: You can't keep a good man down. Eventually someone will see the extra effort you put in and reward you for it, even if it is an ex colleage getting you hired at another company.
- danieltillett 11y ago
  Great post. Make those above you look great and keep them looking great and you will go far assuming your boss is not a PHB.
- saiya-jin 11y ago
  It is for sure one way, but you have no idea how long it will take till somebody "picks you up". It might take few months or 5 years (or more), draining you of a lot of energy and time that you could spent actually having a life. Plus some people see good performers around as competition, depends how company is structured (ie if your manager is on same position/level you will be once promoted). My example - I have colleague like that didn't do proper research before interview and agreed on ridiculously low salary for job&area. I started 1 year after him, negotiated properly (when you don't care that much if you get it or not, it's amazing position for negotiation). He works hard and is clever, right now he is my line manager and guess what - gradually he reached same salary as me. Since nowadays any of us could be fired anytime (or not, big multinational corp, you never know, people are fired frequently). So result - he puts 50% more effort, does endless meetings/documents and presentations that nobody enjoys doing, looks completely drained from energy. I do the same +-fun dev work that I enjoy with gradually more responsibilities, and am earning the same. this all depends a lot on specific company, hierarchy, promotion processes, your specific boss etc. in good company for example, you discuss with your manager your desire for promotion, set objectives/expectations you should fulfill in incoming months, and unless there is promotional freeze (or you screw up), you'll get there.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
    you have no idea how long it will take till somebody "picks you up". This is exactly right. It's also exactly why you don't wait for someone to guide your career: you do it yourself. If you want to work for someone specific, why not just go to them and say so?
- loopbit 11y ago
  Maybe I've had more than my share of bad bosses, but I don't really agree with you here. I must say, also, that in my experience, it does depend on the company size, culture and abilities of said managers more often than not (big, hierarchical companies tend to be worse at this kind of thing, also, banking and financial, not sure why). - A good manager will notice, and appreciate, your effort. But promote you? You are one of his best tools, why should he? Usually he'll try everything he can to keep you where you are. If it's a bad manager, he won't even recognize your effort. - Yes, unless you work with mixed teams or on different projects. In that case, two managers might end up fighting to get you on their teams and it might be a good thing for you. - Nothing to say here, you are totally right, but depending on how you play your cards, the reward can come earlier. Only thing I'll point is that I've seen departments go to hell because managers failed to recognize this. My tip would be to communicate. If you have free time, don't wait for your boss to assign you work and ask. If you see something else that you can be doing (sometimes there are features or bugs that could be worked together), say so, but always comunicate first and wait for your managers decision. Of course, all this is IMHO and your results may vary.
  - meric 11y ago
    - A good manager will notice, and appreciate, your effort. But promote you? You are one of his best tools, why should he? Usually he'll try everything he can to keep you where you are. If it's a bad manager, he won't even recognize your effort. Your parent comment: make him look like a hero, which will get him promoted, and he'll think who is his most valuable / productive underling, which will get you promoted So, your manager got promoted, so in order to keep you around, he'll try anything, including promoting you, to keep you as one of his best tools.
    - loopbit 11y ago
      Again, maybe I've had more bad managers than the average (in my 17 years of professional experience I've had 2, maybe 3, good managers), but there's no guarantee that will happen. Maybe in areas like SV, where good professionals with solid experience have no problem finding another role and companies are actually trying their best to keep good employees that happens more often. What I've seen is people skipped for promotion in favor of the manager's son friend. Or in favor of someone "recommended" from above. Or many other forms of nepotism. I've seen wonderful managers-to-be being kept in a lower role because the company didn't want to cough up the increase in salary. And, as said before, invariably I've seen these people end up leaving and going somewhere else, causing the department a few problems (organization, lost know-how...). BTW, reading my comments on this one might think I'm bitter and maybe I am: I worked 6 years in Spain and France, where nepotism is the norm and techies are considered second class citizens. I must say that I don't think I've been skipped for promotion many times and personally I haven't had many issues moving up (and down) the ladder in all the places I've worked. But I also know that one of the reasons for this is that I've never had a problem with getting up and leaving a company if I wasn't happy.
- ap22213 11y ago
  This advice and the advice of the parent are both very useful, in my experiences. One thing I would add is to make sure you love working for your boss. If you don't love working for your boss, get a new boss.
  - lostcolony 11y ago
    This. So much this. The actual work, while important, is of less importance than your manager. Yes, find interesting work, but prioritize them, and consider outright declining them, if the manager does not seem like someone you can work with and can trust to be dealt fairly by.
    - jenshoop 11y ago
      Agreed. There was a crazy study that showed that 75% of American workers identify their boss as the worst and most stressful part of their job and that 60% of US workers would take a new boss over a pay raise. But you're at such a disadvantage when interviewing -- how do you vet your potential manager? And when your financial welfare is on the line, would you really pass up an opportunity on this count alone?
      - lostcolony 11y ago
        Yeah, it's hard. But it's worth keeping in the forefront of your mind. When interviewing, make sure you've met everyone above you you'll actually have to interact with. When contemplating a job change, keep that in the forefront of your mind, and make decisions accordingly. I know I could have avoided one disastrous job I took had I done so (while missing out on none of the good ones)
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  > The best route up is hitching your wagon to your bosses wagon. So yes doing some of his work will make him look like a hero, which will get him promoted, and he'll think who is his most valuable / productive underling, which will get you promoted. Hopefully you doing some of his work free's up his time to be more productive in other areas. If your boss is a lazy PHB (Dilbert), get another job. This is called loyalty, and it only really works in certain kinds of endeavors, and then only certain organizations doing them. TV shows depict loyalty a lot, the thing I notice about these shows is that the stories are always set in "meat-grinder" sorts of fields, and then at the tops of those fields. Suits, set in a high-powered corporate law firm. Entourage, set in Hollywood. Loyalty as a major theme to a show isn't interesting to watch otherwise. Everywhere else, an interested ladder-climber will always find that it's way easier and cheaper to change jobs than it is to move up in one. Hence the perennial advice to move to a city, where landing jobs is like shooting fish in a barrel for the ambitious. When you run out of steam at one company, get a fresh start somewhere else. Rinse and repeat until you're tired of moving around, then you can start the loyalty path. It's important to note that the skills you need to convince someone else that you can do a job are way different than the skills you need to convince a power broker to bequeath you with additional responsibilities and the commensurate titles and prestige. It so happens that years of experience working in organizations gives you those skills largely through osmosis. I like where I am now, so I investigated the possibility of sticking around and trying to move up rather than jump to another company. Even talked to my boss about it. But unless you're at a rapidly growing company, the opportunities for advancement just aren't going to be there and you might be waiting years for your turn. My boss specifically used the words, "you're comfortable" to describe my head space when he said he'd go around and ask if anyone else needed anything to do. You and everyone else can have the best of intentions, but opportunity is limited and it's hard to make more of it. There's only ever a limited amount of money and perks to go around, and its often politically unfeasible to start rocking a boat by democratizing something that was previously held feudally. Making the decision to stay at a company is giving up easy access to opportunity in exchange for security and stability. You can always unmake that decision by leaving, often times you can even unmake it the other way, companies will take people that leave back if they like them enough, but you and only you can decide what you want more out of your time on Earth.
fmavituna 11y ago
> 1. If a manager leaves work unassigned and you pick it up, prepare to have a LOT more work dumped on you in the future for no reward. Why do you assume "no reward"? What kind of company/manager wouldn't reward an employee who goes that extra mile?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- Cthulhu_ 11y ago
  Most. For most employers, an employee is a cost / benefit thing (see also: capitalism). The more work an employee does for the least amount of money, the better value that employee is to the employer. Relevant to HN, this is common in SV; fixed working hours / contracts (i.e. 40 hr workweeks) - which unions have fought hard for to achieve - are frowned upon, working overtime, evenings, weekends, and odd hours are encouraged, and people are expected to be available for work pretty much 24/7, and to be doing something work / profession-related outside of work too (think hackathons, meetups, hobby / OS projects, etc). Mind you my sweeping generalisation may not be accurate, I don't live / work there.
  - michaelt 11y ago
    At least where I work, there are annual raises where junior managers recommend which of their employees should receive small/medium/large raises; and only giving small raises does not produce any rewards or benefits for the manager. If someone is doing great work, why wouldn't a manager recommend they get a large raise? They want to retain good performers, after all.
    - eitally 11y ago
      Outside of the highly profitable sectors (tech, finance, insurance, pharma), annual raises mostly went the way of the dodo back in 2007-2008... and didn't come back.
pleasanthipster 11y ago
I personally take on jobs I'm not assigned. But I think believing someone owes you a promotion for working hard is bs. Instead, work on the things you find valuable in whatever way you want it to be. Tbh though I actually agree with your comment 100% but there is a positive way to spin it
- dagw 11y ago
  I personally take on jobs I'm not assigned. Instead of or in addition to your normal duties? Or do you find that your normal duties don't fill a normal work week?
  - mikekchar 11y ago
    mikekchar's rule of strategic incompetence: Never be really, really good at something that your don't want to do. Otherwise people will keep asking you to do it. Corollary (and the useful bit): If you show yourself to be really, really good at something people will keep asking you to do it. If it's something you like, then you will be happy in your job. In any job there are 1000's of things that need to get done that nobody is doing right now. It is a good investment to do some of the things that you enjoy and get really, really good at it. Over time you will find that it will become your job.
    - vinceguidry 11y ago
      > Never be really, really good at something that your don't want to do. Otherwise people will keep asking you to do it. This is how I was able to avoid getting roped into the IT help desk role. I did that job for a year at another company, I'm really good at it. But when someone comes around looking for help and the guy they hired isn't there, I do not offer to help. No way am I going back to that, I didn't develop Rails skills for nothing.
      - test1235 11y ago
        Email templates for me. I could do them, being primarily a frontend dev, but I would rather turn down a job than have to deal with that bs.
dunkelheit 11y ago
That's kind of a managerial antipattern. True, if someone goes an extra mile and does something outside her direct responsibilities, it is tempting to reward that person with more of the similar tasks in the future. But in the long run this only leads to resentment and curbing of initiative. More experienced managers will find ways to reward this kind of contributions. Also true that employees need to be smart about it. No need to volunteer for unglamorous drudge work, better do something that is perceived to be valuable.
miseg 11y ago
On this subject, should you dress to look like a manager? While at my company the same dress code applies to all, the managers certainly dress more business-like than the programmers.
- marcosdumay 11y ago
  If you want to become one, yes.
jo909 11y ago
I would not call it trying to be a "manager", that is a narrow role with a formal place in the org chart. Let's call it "taking responsibility". I agree that you should be smart about it, and not blindly do unassigned work. In the worst case you can be reprimanded because you did not follow process and you might step on someones toes that had other plans and ideas. But don't just do what you are told or only what fits your job description, but do what is needed most and what you care about. That does not have to mean you can't first discuss it with your formal manager or team, but only that you take the initiative and show that you care. When other people recognise that you care about some topic, surly you will get more work regarding that topic. But that is a good thing because you now get to do more work _that you care about_ and that is important. In a sensible organisation that will also mean you can leave some other work to other people, not that you have to increase your hours.
purpled_haze 11y ago
Another warning: Sometimes doing the right thing in your mind means going against leadership and culture that are ingrained in the heart of the company. Taking this route may actually be the right thing to do, but it might not be in your long-term career's best interest. This goes for everything from filling vacuums to taking charge to fix things gone wrong.
- jackgavigan 11y ago
  In my experience, if you find that your values are at odds with the company culture, you should think very carefully about leaving. Unless you're at/near the top of the organisation, trying to challenge an ingrained culture is difficult, and you risk being perceived as "difficult", "obstructive", "not a team player", etc. and, from personal experience, it can be stressful and depressing.
lsadam0 11y ago
I'm not really disagreeing. Setting expectation is always a good thing. However, speaking as a manager...if one of my team members is always stepping up and getting things done in a reliable way without me having to constantly direct them....that person is going to be first in line for promotion and raises. On the flip side, the team members whom I have to micro manage because they are unable to think for themselves will be the first to be culled.
HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
I'm going to say that it depends on the manager. What I've found is that volunteering to take on unassigned work usually resulted in me having first choice at new tasks so I ended up generally working only on stuff I found interesting. Now, I will admit that I had a very good manager at the time, but I've seen the same thing play out similarly elsewhere.

j_jochem 11y ago

This really depends on the organization you're working for. If you're in a competitive corporate environment with lots of pusing and shoving, your interpretation is probably correct. If you work in a place that has flat hierarchies and lots of employee autonomy, the original blog author is probably right.

kabouseng 11y ago

If I may, here is some of my protips: - The best route up is hitching your wagon to your bosses wagon. So yes doing some of his work will make him look like a hero, which will get him promoted, and he'll think who is his most valuable / productive underling, which will get you promoted. Hopefully you doing some of his work free's up his time to be more productive in other areas. If your boss is a lazy PHB (Dilbert), get another job. - It is far more difficult to try and get promoted around your boss. Don't try this, it doesn't work. - Reward isn't always immediate. A previous manager of mine's advice was: You can't keep a good man down. Eventually someone will see the extra effort you put in and reward you for it, even if it is an ex colleage getting you hired at another company.

danieltillett 11y ago
Great post. Make those above you look great and keep them looking great and you will go far assuming your boss is not a PHB.
saiya-jin 11y ago
It is for sure one way, but you have no idea how long it will take till somebody "picks you up". It might take few months or 5 years (or more), draining you of a lot of energy and time that you could spent actually having a life. Plus some people see good performers around as competition, depends how company is structured (ie if your manager is on same position/level you will be once promoted). My example - I have colleague like that didn't do proper research before interview and agreed on ridiculously low salary for job&area. I started 1 year after him, negotiated properly (when you don't care that much if you get it or not, it's amazing position for negotiation). He works hard and is clever, right now he is my line manager and guess what - gradually he reached same salary as me. Since nowadays any of us could be fired anytime (or not, big multinational corp, you never know, people are fired frequently). So result - he puts 50% more effort, does endless meetings/documents and presentations that nobody enjoys doing, looks completely drained from energy. I do the same +-fun dev work that I enjoy with gradually more responsibilities, and am earning the same. this all depends a lot on specific company, hierarchy, promotion processes, your specific boss etc. in good company for example, you discuss with your manager your desire for promotion, set objectives/expectations you should fulfill in incoming months, and unless there is promotional freeze (or you screw up), you'll get there.
- HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago
  you have no idea how long it will take till somebody "picks you up". This is exactly right. It's also exactly why you don't wait for someone to guide your career: you do it yourself. If you want to work for someone specific, why not just go to them and say so?
loopbit 11y ago
Maybe I've had more than my share of bad bosses, but I don't really agree with you here. I must say, also, that in my experience, it does depend on the company size, culture and abilities of said managers more often than not (big, hierarchical companies tend to be worse at this kind of thing, also, banking and financial, not sure why). - A good manager will notice, and appreciate, your effort. But promote you? You are one of his best tools, why should he? Usually he'll try everything he can to keep you where you are. If it's a bad manager, he won't even recognize your effort. - Yes, unless you work with mixed teams or on different projects. In that case, two managers might end up fighting to get you on their teams and it might be a good thing for you. - Nothing to say here, you are totally right, but depending on how you play your cards, the reward can come earlier. Only thing I'll point is that I've seen departments go to hell because managers failed to recognize this. My tip would be to communicate. If you have free time, don't wait for your boss to assign you work and ask. If you see something else that you can be doing (sometimes there are features or bugs that could be worked together), say so, but always comunicate first and wait for your managers decision. Of course, all this is IMHO and your results may vary.
- meric 11y ago
  - A good manager will notice, and appreciate, your effort. But promote you? You are one of his best tools, why should he? Usually he'll try everything he can to keep you where you are. If it's a bad manager, he won't even recognize your effort. Your parent comment: make him look like a hero, which will get him promoted, and he'll think who is his most valuable / productive underling, which will get you promoted So, your manager got promoted, so in order to keep you around, he'll try anything, including promoting you, to keep you as one of his best tools.
  - loopbit 11y ago
    Again, maybe I've had more bad managers than the average (in my 17 years of professional experience I've had 2, maybe 3, good managers), but there's no guarantee that will happen. Maybe in areas like SV, where good professionals with solid experience have no problem finding another role and companies are actually trying their best to keep good employees that happens more often. What I've seen is people skipped for promotion in favor of the manager's son friend. Or in favor of someone "recommended" from above. Or many other forms of nepotism. I've seen wonderful managers-to-be being kept in a lower role because the company didn't want to cough up the increase in salary. And, as said before, invariably I've seen these people end up leaving and going somewhere else, causing the department a few problems (organization, lost know-how...). BTW, reading my comments on this one might think I'm bitter and maybe I am: I worked 6 years in Spain and France, where nepotism is the norm and techies are considered second class citizens. I must say that I don't think I've been skipped for promotion many times and personally I haven't had many issues moving up (and down) the ladder in all the places I've worked. But I also know that one of the reasons for this is that I've never had a problem with getting up and leaving a company if I wasn't happy.
ap22213 11y ago
This advice and the advice of the parent are both very useful, in my experiences. One thing I would add is to make sure you love working for your boss. If you don't love working for your boss, get a new boss.
- lostcolony 11y ago
  This. So much this. The actual work, while important, is of less importance than your manager. Yes, find interesting work, but prioritize them, and consider outright declining them, if the manager does not seem like someone you can work with and can trust to be dealt fairly by.
  - jenshoop 11y ago
    Agreed. There was a crazy study that showed that 75% of American workers identify their boss as the worst and most stressful part of their job and that 60% of US workers would take a new boss over a pay raise. But you're at such a disadvantage when interviewing -- how do you vet your potential manager? And when your financial welfare is on the line, would you really pass up an opportunity on this count alone?
    - lostcolony 11y ago
      Yeah, it's hard. But it's worth keeping in the forefront of your mind. When interviewing, make sure you've met everyone above you you'll actually have to interact with. When contemplating a job change, keep that in the forefront of your mind, and make decisions accordingly. I know I could have avoided one disastrous job I took had I done so (while missing out on none of the good ones)
vinceguidry 11y ago
> The best route up is hitching your wagon to your bosses wagon. So yes doing some of his work will make him look like a hero, which will get him promoted, and he'll think who is his most valuable / productive underling, which will get you promoted. Hopefully you doing some of his work free's up his time to be more productive in other areas. If your boss is a lazy PHB (Dilbert), get another job. This is called loyalty, and it only really works in certain kinds of endeavors, and then only certain organizations doing them. TV shows depict loyalty a lot, the thing I notice about these shows is that the stories are always set in "meat-grinder" sorts of fields, and then at the tops of those fields. Suits, set in a high-powered corporate law firm. Entourage, set in Hollywood. Loyalty as a major theme to a show isn't interesting to watch otherwise. Everywhere else, an interested ladder-climber will always find that it's way easier and cheaper to change jobs than it is to move up in one. Hence the perennial advice to move to a city, where landing jobs is like shooting fish in a barrel for the ambitious. When you run out of steam at one company, get a fresh start somewhere else. Rinse and repeat until you're tired of moving around, then you can start the loyalty path. It's important to note that the skills you need to convince someone else that you can do a job are way different than the skills you need to convince a power broker to bequeath you with additional responsibilities and the commensurate titles and prestige. It so happens that years of experience working in organizations gives you those skills largely through osmosis. I like where I am now, so I investigated the possibility of sticking around and trying to move up rather than jump to another company. Even talked to my boss about it. But unless you're at a rapidly growing company, the opportunities for advancement just aren't going to be there and you might be waiting years for your turn. My boss specifically used the words, "you're comfortable" to describe my head space when he said he'd go around and ask if anyone else needed anything to do. You and everyone else can have the best of intentions, but opportunity is limited and it's hard to make more of it. There's only ever a limited amount of money and perks to go around, and its often politically unfeasible to start rocking a boat by democratizing something that was previously held feudally. Making the decision to stay at a company is giving up easy access to opportunity in exchange for security and stability. You can always unmake that decision by leaving, often times you can even unmake it the other way, companies will take people that leave back if they like them enough, but you and only you can decide what you want more out of your time on Earth.

fmavituna 11y ago

> 1. If a manager leaves work unassigned and you pick it up, prepare to have a LOT more work dumped on you in the future for no reward. Why do you assume "no reward"? What kind of company/manager wouldn't reward an employee who goes that extra mile?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
Cthulhu_ 11y ago
Most. For most employers, an employee is a cost / benefit thing (see also: capitalism). The more work an employee does for the least amount of money, the better value that employee is to the employer. Relevant to HN, this is common in SV; fixed working hours / contracts (i.e. 40 hr workweeks) - which unions have fought hard for to achieve - are frowned upon, working overtime, evenings, weekends, and odd hours are encouraged, and people are expected to be available for work pretty much 24/7, and to be doing something work / profession-related outside of work too (think hackathons, meetups, hobby / OS projects, etc). Mind you my sweeping generalisation may not be accurate, I don't live / work there.
- michaelt 11y ago
  At least where I work, there are annual raises where junior managers recommend which of their employees should receive small/medium/large raises; and only giving small raises does not produce any rewards or benefits for the manager. If someone is doing great work, why wouldn't a manager recommend they get a large raise? They want to retain good performers, after all.
  - eitally 11y ago
    Outside of the highly profitable sectors (tech, finance, insurance, pharma), annual raises mostly went the way of the dodo back in 2007-2008... and didn't come back.

pleasanthipster 11y ago

I personally take on jobs I'm not assigned. But I think believing someone owes you a promotion for working hard is bs. Instead, work on the things you find valuable in whatever way you want it to be. Tbh though I actually agree with your comment 100% but there is a positive way to spin it

dagw 11y ago
I personally take on jobs I'm not assigned. Instead of or in addition to your normal duties? Or do you find that your normal duties don't fill a normal work week?
- mikekchar 11y ago
  mikekchar's rule of strategic incompetence: Never be really, really good at something that your don't want to do. Otherwise people will keep asking you to do it. Corollary (and the useful bit): If you show yourself to be really, really good at something people will keep asking you to do it. If it's something you like, then you will be happy in your job. In any job there are 1000's of things that need to get done that nobody is doing right now. It is a good investment to do some of the things that you enjoy and get really, really good at it. Over time you will find that it will become your job.
  - vinceguidry 11y ago
    > Never be really, really good at something that your don't want to do. Otherwise people will keep asking you to do it. This is how I was able to avoid getting roped into the IT help desk role. I did that job for a year at another company, I'm really good at it. But when someone comes around looking for help and the guy they hired isn't there, I do not offer to help. No way am I going back to that, I didn't develop Rails skills for nothing.
    - test1235 11y ago
      Email templates for me. I could do them, being primarily a frontend dev, but I would rather turn down a job than have to deal with that bs.

dunkelheit 11y ago

That's kind of a managerial antipattern. True, if someone goes an extra mile and does something outside her direct responsibilities, it is tempting to reward that person with more of the similar tasks in the future. But in the long run this only leads to resentment and curbing of initiative. More experienced managers will find ways to reward this kind of contributions. Also true that employees need to be smart about it. No need to volunteer for unglamorous drudge work, better do something that is perceived to be valuable.

miseg 11y ago

On this subject, should you dress to look like a manager? While at my company the same dress code applies to all, the managers certainly dress more business-like than the programmers.

marcosdumay 11y ago
If you want to become one, yes.

jo909 11y ago

I would not call it trying to be a "manager", that is a narrow role with a formal place in the org chart. Let's call it "taking responsibility". I agree that you should be smart about it, and not blindly do unassigned work. In the worst case you can be reprimanded because you did not follow process and you might step on someones toes that had other plans and ideas. But don't just do what you are told or only what fits your job description, but do what is needed most and what you care about. That does not have to mean you can't first discuss it with your formal manager or team, but only that you take the initiative and show that you care. When other people recognise that you care about some topic, surly you will get more work regarding that topic. But that is a good thing because you now get to do more work _that you care about_ and that is important. In a sensible organisation that will also mean you can leave some other work to other people, not that you have to increase your hours.

purpled_haze 11y ago

Another warning: Sometimes doing the right thing in your mind means going against leadership and culture that are ingrained in the heart of the company. Taking this route may actually be the right thing to do, but it might not be in your long-term career's best interest. This goes for everything from filling vacuums to taking charge to fix things gone wrong.

jackgavigan 11y ago
In my experience, if you find that your values are at odds with the company culture, you should think very carefully about leaving. Unless you're at/near the top of the organisation, trying to challenge an ingrained culture is difficult, and you risk being perceived as "difficult", "obstructive", "not a team player", etc. and, from personal experience, it can be stressful and depressing.

lsadam0 11y ago

I'm not really disagreeing. Setting expectation is always a good thing. However, speaking as a manager...if one of my team members is always stepping up and getting things done in a reliable way without me having to constantly direct them....that person is going to be first in line for promotion and raises. On the flip side, the team members whom I have to micro manage because they are unable to think for themselves will be the first to be culled.

HeyLaughingBoy 11y ago

I'm going to say that it depends on the manager. What I've found is that volunteering to take on unassigned work usually resulted in me having first choice at new tasks so I ended up generally working only on stuff I found interesting. Now, I will admit that I had a very good manager at the time, but I've seen the same thing play out similarly elsewhere.