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This was inevitable and it is going to drive real estate sale and rental prices up dramatically in tourist destinations. I have relatives who own rental proper

This was inevitable and it is going to drive real estate sale and rental prices up dramatically in tourist destinations. I have relatives who own rental property in Key West, they used to sign year long leases and manage the property year round. With Airbnb they rent the same property 1 week each month and make more money than they did with the year long lease. Ultimately landlords have little incentive to rent to locals. Airbnb means they never worry about have to go to landlord/tenant court to evict and never have to worry about getting paid monthly.

cauterized 11y ago
Which is in turn extremely damaging to communities where real estate is at a premium and even people who make a lot of money struggle to find housing they can afford. There's a reason full-time AirBnBing is illegal in a lot of these municipalities, and it's the same reason it should stay that way.
- shaftoe 11y ago
  So, you have the right to tell someone what they're allowed to charge for access to their own property?
  - vkou 11y ago
    Unless said property literally floats in a vacuum, there are many public externalities arising from your use of your property.
  - ceejayoz 11y ago
    Yes. The US is set up to permit regulation on federal, state, and local levels. It's one of the main roles of government.
    - jellicle 11y ago
      And since it is only the U.S.'s regulations that make a particular piece of property "yours" rather than "no one's", arguing about the legitimacy of said regulations is incredibly daft. In the absence of regulations, you don't have any property at all.
      - shaftoe 11y ago
        The only reason anyone owns anything is because of government regulations? That's an interesting take on the philosophy behind private property rights.
- psaintla 11y ago
  There should be some limitations in place but how would you enforce them? If your local government checks Airbnb regularly to find people breaking the law then people will just use some other method to do the same thing as Airbnb.
  - EwanToo 11y ago
    If I was the person in charge of enforcing it, I would probably do something like: 1 - Make it illegal for Airbnb style services to operate in that area, including making a website available, advertising the service, taking listings in that region, etc 2 - Threaten to jail or heavily fine senior employees if law broken 3 - Offer a legal route which involves an audit trail of bookings being supplied to the local gov 4 - Use audit trail to deal with rule-breaking landlords Steps 1 and 2 are essentially how the US government deals with foreign gambling websites.
    - psaintla 11y ago
      That's a lot to ask from a local government.
      - EwanToo 11y ago
        For New York state government (or equivalent) though?
  - Brakenshire 11y ago
    If the customer is able to find the listing, enforcement agencies certainly should be able to.
caseysoftware 11y ago
This looks like the exact inverse of the VC market: VC's place tons of bets, knowing that most will crash and burn but hoping that a few percent will win out and cover all the other loses. In the professional AirBnB host world, they place tons of bets, the vast majority pay out small amounts (individually) with the hope that they don't get any of the BAD guests that wipe out gains across their network.
- fweespeech 11y ago
  Yes, that is how the rental market has always worked. It isn't just AirBnb. You make your money on how well you screen tenants and on the "purchase" of property. [i.e. Long term lease or purchase ]
greggman 11y ago
That might be true now. Will it be true in the future? As word gets out you can make $$$$$ renting on AirBnB then more and more people will do it until there is competition for renters which will lowering prices. I don't know that will happen but it's certainly a possibility with the prices now only being possible because supply hasn't yet caught up with demand.
- psaintla 11y ago
  It will remain true in places where there is limited supply due to geography or legal restrictions. Those also happen to be where a lot of major tourist destinations are.
  - Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
    In areas with legal restrictions, it sounds like the solution is to fix the legal restrictions. The law can be changed, after all; geography is a little less malleable.
    - brewdad 11y ago
      So the solution to the problem of property owners operating in violation of the law is to change unrelated laws to deter them? That's like trying to stop your town's speeding problem by writing more parking tickets.
      - psaintla 11y ago
        I have no idea what you think I said.
    - psaintla 11y ago
      You say that like it's a simple thing, it's not. Here is a concrete example of what I mean. In NYC rent control/stabilization artificially limits the supply and increases the cost of non-stabilized units. If rent control was eliminated rental values across the city would plummet in non-stabilized units. As a result property values in non-stabilized buildings would plummet as well. You could easily trigger a panic as landlords try to sell off property that is declining in value. There are unintended side effects to changing laws, it's never as simple as just fixing a legal restriction.
southphillyman 11y ago
There is still good value in places like Miami. You can purchase 1 bedroom "condos" 2-3 blocks from Ocean Drive for <$120k and likely cover your yearly mortgage just with summer month reservations. I looked into this a bit when I had trouble finding places to stay during Art Basel last year and decided to look up sales data for properties I tried reserving on AirBnb

cauterized 11y ago

Which is in turn extremely damaging to communities where real estate is at a premium and even people who make a lot of money struggle to find housing they can afford. There's a reason full-time AirBnBing is illegal in a lot of these municipalities, and it's the same reason it should stay that way.

shaftoe 11y ago
So, you have the right to tell someone what they're allowed to charge for access to their own property?
- vkou 11y ago
  Unless said property literally floats in a vacuum, there are many public externalities arising from your use of your property.
- ceejayoz 11y ago
  Yes. The US is set up to permit regulation on federal, state, and local levels. It's one of the main roles of government.
  - jellicle 11y ago
    And since it is only the U.S.'s regulations that make a particular piece of property "yours" rather than "no one's", arguing about the legitimacy of said regulations is incredibly daft. In the absence of regulations, you don't have any property at all.
    - shaftoe 11y ago
      The only reason anyone owns anything is because of government regulations? That's an interesting take on the philosophy behind private property rights.
psaintla 11y ago
There should be some limitations in place but how would you enforce them? If your local government checks Airbnb regularly to find people breaking the law then people will just use some other method to do the same thing as Airbnb.
- EwanToo 11y ago
  If I was the person in charge of enforcing it, I would probably do something like: 1 - Make it illegal for Airbnb style services to operate in that area, including making a website available, advertising the service, taking listings in that region, etc 2 - Threaten to jail or heavily fine senior employees if law broken 3 - Offer a legal route which involves an audit trail of bookings being supplied to the local gov 4 - Use audit trail to deal with rule-breaking landlords Steps 1 and 2 are essentially how the US government deals with foreign gambling websites.
  - psaintla 11y ago
    That's a lot to ask from a local government.
    - EwanToo 11y ago
      For New York state government (or equivalent) though?
- Brakenshire 11y ago
  If the customer is able to find the listing, enforcement agencies certainly should be able to.

caseysoftware 11y ago

This looks like the exact inverse of the VC market: VC's place tons of bets, knowing that most will crash and burn but hoping that a few percent will win out and cover all the other loses. In the professional AirBnB host world, they place tons of bets, the vast majority pay out small amounts (individually) with the hope that they don't get any of the BAD guests that wipe out gains across their network.

fweespeech 11y ago
Yes, that is how the rental market has always worked. It isn't just AirBnb. You make your money on how well you screen tenants and on the "purchase" of property. [i.e. Long term lease or purchase ]

greggman 11y ago

That might be true now. Will it be true in the future? As word gets out you can make $$$$$ renting on AirBnB then more and more people will do it until there is competition for renters which will lowering prices. I don't know that will happen but it's certainly a possibility with the prices now only being possible because supply hasn't yet caught up with demand.

psaintla 11y ago
It will remain true in places where there is limited supply due to geography or legal restrictions. Those also happen to be where a lot of major tourist destinations are.
- Zach_the_Lizard 11y ago
  In areas with legal restrictions, it sounds like the solution is to fix the legal restrictions. The law can be changed, after all; geography is a little less malleable.
  - brewdad 11y ago
    So the solution to the problem of property owners operating in violation of the law is to change unrelated laws to deter them? That's like trying to stop your town's speeding problem by writing more parking tickets.
    - psaintla 11y ago
      I have no idea what you think I said.
  - psaintla 11y ago
    You say that like it's a simple thing, it's not. Here is a concrete example of what I mean. In NYC rent control/stabilization artificially limits the supply and increases the cost of non-stabilized units. If rent control was eliminated rental values across the city would plummet in non-stabilized units. As a result property values in non-stabilized buildings would plummet as well. You could easily trigger a panic as landlords try to sell off property that is declining in value. There are unintended side effects to changing laws, it's never as simple as just fixing a legal restriction.

southphillyman 11y ago

There is still good value in places like Miami. You can purchase 1 bedroom "condos" 2-3 blocks from Ocean Drive for <$120k and likely cover your yearly mortgage just with summer month reservations. I looked into this a bit when I had trouble finding places to stay during Art Basel last year and decided to look up sales data for properties I tried reserving on AirBnb