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> None of this would have come to light without GamerGate. Including the stuff in his comment that happened before GamerGate and was widely known about and rep

by DrPizza 11y ago

> None of this would have come to light without GamerGate. Including the stuff in his comment that happened before GamerGate and was widely known about and reported on before GamerGate? "None of this" indeed. Oh, and Totilo doesn't describe any kind of compromising relationship between Quinn and any of his writers, which merely underscores the fundamentally dishonest basis of the entire "movement". "ethics in games journalism" was always a pretext for "attack Zoe Quinn", which is why you idiots continue to bitch about "oh gosh someone in the games industry knows someone else" and not, you know, "major games publishers won't deal with critical outlets" or "major games publishers try to break through the Chinese wall between editorial and advertising by holding outlets hostage" or "non-disclosure of advertising funded by major publishers is routine on YouTube" or "the games industry is fundamentally corrupted by the widespread use of pre-orders rendering titles immune to reviews or even basic quality control" or "major publishers routinely use death marches, even though this is detrimental to both game quality and programmer wellbeing" or all sorts of other issues that actually matter worth a damn. But no, you keep harping on about the utterly fucking trivial indie games industry, if it can even be called that.

exstudent2 11y ago
Of course you would say that. And of course you don't disclose your own personal history with GG: https://m.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2n0rxz/casey_johnston_is_out_but_drpizza_is_still_in/ https://m.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2n0rxz/casey_... You are one of the unethical journalists in question.
- DrPizza 11y ago
  Please enumerate all my unethical journalistic acts, thanks.
  - exstudent2 11y ago
    You need look no further than your obvious agenda in the comments here. You totally misrepresent what Totilo says, you add snark laden, content free comments (what's 'kappa' mean?), and generally act like you're throwing a tantrum.
    - DrPizza 11y ago
      Journalists are allowed to have an agenda. There is no such thing as an unbiased journalist. Even the mere selection of _which stories to write about_ is an expression of bias, as there is no universally agreed upon objective standard of newsworthiness. Having an agenda does not make me an unethical journalist. Nor does writing things that you do not like on an online message board. Try harder. Here's everything I've written in a professional capacity: http://arstechnica.com/author/peter-bright/ http://arstechnica.com/author/peter-bright/. Which of these acts of journalism are unethical, and why?
      - exstudent2 11y ago
        You're constantly on the front lines of this debate pushing for more leniency for journalists. You are anti-audience in that respect and yes I consider that unethical. You can have any agenda you wish but when that agenda hurts your readership's trust in you, it seems strange to continue to push it.
        DrPizza 11y ago
        > You're constantly [citation needed] I don't think I've engaged with gators for several months. > on the front lines of this debate [citation needed] I have been at best a minor footnote in the entire debacle. > pushing for more leniency for journalists. [citation needed] I'm all for ethical journalism. But that is not a call for "objectivity" as I do not believe that journalism can be objective, nor is it a call for removal of "opinion" from both news and reviews. > You are anti-audience in that respect Did you consider that perhaps gators are not my audience? > and yes I consider that unethical. Writing for different audiences is _unethical_? Do words even have meaning in your world? > You can have any agenda you wish but when that agenda hurts your readership's trust in you, it seems strange to continue to push it. Did you never consider that your views do not in fact constitute the consensus opinion of my readership? If I were to lie to my readers and maintain a pro-gamergate persona, I daresay it would hurt my readers' trust in me far more than my current position. I'm still waiting for you to list all the unethical things I have done. You know: stuff that, for example, demonstrates a conflict of interest or a deliberate misrepresentation of facts. Something that's an actual journalistic ethics issue. I mean, you were so very quick to claim that I was an unethical journalist. Can you not even substantiate the claim?
dang 11y ago
> But no, you keep harping on about the utterly fucking trivial indie games industry Personal attacks are not allowed on HN, and your comments are generally breaking the site guidelines about civility. We ban accounts that do this repeatedly. (Many other commenters have been breaking the guidelines too in this thread, and I'm not posting this because I agree with any of them.)
Uhhrrr 11y ago
You should write about all the problems with major game publishers and name names. It would be a great article! However, considering how most game sites circled the wagons for the case of Nathan Grayson and an unknown indie dev, I don't have high hopes. Also, saying there was no conflict of interest between Grayson and Quinn is bunk. He had hung out with her, flirted online, planned a trip to Vegas with her, and been thanked in the credits of Quinn's game. A journalist outside of the games industry would have let someone else cover the Game Jam, given that level of involvement. Quinn should be blameless in this - there's no handbook of ethics for indie devs - but Stephen Totilo absolutely shouldn't.
- DrPizza 11y ago
  > You should write about all the problems with major game publishers and name names. People have written bits and pieces on this before Nobody really cares.
  - Uhhrrr 11y ago
    Here's a Reddit post about Polygon's Samit Sarkar which got 500 upvotes: https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3jq1xm/goal_on_monday_email_polygon_about_the_ethical/ https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3jq1xm/goal... Here's a post about EA giving early access to Reddit mods, who didn't disclose it. 2000 upvotes: https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3c8wze/ethics_ea_gave_the_mods_of_rstarwarsbattlefront/ https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3c8wze/ethi... There's definitely a constituency among gamers.

by DrPizza 11y ago

exstudent2 11y ago

Of course you would say that. And of course you don't disclose your own personal history with GG: https://m.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2n0rxz/casey_johnston_is_out_but_drpizza_is_still_in/ https://m.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2n0rxz/casey_... You are one of the unethical journalists in question.

DrPizza 11y ago
Please enumerate all my unethical journalistic acts, thanks.
- exstudent2 11y ago
  You need look no further than your obvious agenda in the comments here. You totally misrepresent what Totilo says, you add snark laden, content free comments (what's 'kappa' mean?), and generally act like you're throwing a tantrum.
  - DrPizza 11y ago
    Journalists are allowed to have an agenda. There is no such thing as an unbiased journalist. Even the mere selection of _which stories to write about_ is an expression of bias, as there is no universally agreed upon objective standard of newsworthiness. Having an agenda does not make me an unethical journalist. Nor does writing things that you do not like on an online message board. Try harder. Here's everything I've written in a professional capacity: http://arstechnica.com/author/peter-bright/ http://arstechnica.com/author/peter-bright/. Which of these acts of journalism are unethical, and why?
    - exstudent2 11y ago
      You're constantly on the front lines of this debate pushing for more leniency for journalists. You are anti-audience in that respect and yes I consider that unethical. You can have any agenda you wish but when that agenda hurts your readership's trust in you, it seems strange to continue to push it.
      - DrPizza 11y ago
        > You're constantly [citation needed] I don't think I've engaged with gators for several months. > on the front lines of this debate [citation needed] I have been at best a minor footnote in the entire debacle. > pushing for more leniency for journalists. [citation needed] I'm all for ethical journalism. But that is not a call for "objectivity" as I do not believe that journalism can be objective, nor is it a call for removal of "opinion" from both news and reviews. > You are anti-audience in that respect Did you consider that perhaps gators are not my audience? > and yes I consider that unethical. Writing for different audiences is _unethical_? Do words even have meaning in your world? > You can have any agenda you wish but when that agenda hurts your readership's trust in you, it seems strange to continue to push it. Did you never consider that your views do not in fact constitute the consensus opinion of my readership? If I were to lie to my readers and maintain a pro-gamergate persona, I daresay it would hurt my readers' trust in me far more than my current position. I'm still waiting for you to list all the unethical things I have done. You know: stuff that, for example, demonstrates a conflict of interest or a deliberate misrepresentation of facts. Something that's an actual journalistic ethics issue. I mean, you were so very quick to claim that I was an unethical journalist. Can you not even substantiate the claim?

dang 11y ago

> But no, you keep harping on about the utterly fucking trivial indie games industry Personal attacks are not allowed on HN, and your comments are generally breaking the site guidelines about civility. We ban accounts that do this repeatedly. (Many other commenters have been breaking the guidelines too in this thread, and I'm not posting this because I agree with any of them.)

Uhhrrr 11y ago

You should write about all the problems with major game publishers and name names. It would be a great article! However, considering how most game sites circled the wagons for the case of Nathan Grayson and an unknown indie dev, I don't have high hopes. Also, saying there was no conflict of interest between Grayson and Quinn is bunk. He had hung out with her, flirted online, planned a trip to Vegas with her, and been thanked in the credits of Quinn's game. A journalist outside of the games industry would have let someone else cover the Game Jam, given that level of involvement. Quinn should be blameless in this - there's no handbook of ethics for indie devs - but Stephen Totilo absolutely shouldn't.

DrPizza 11y ago
> You should write about all the problems with major game publishers and name names. People have written bits and pieces on this before Nobody really cares.
- Uhhrrr 11y ago
  Here's a Reddit post about Polygon's Samit Sarkar which got 500 upvotes: https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3jq1xm/goal_on_monday_email_polygon_about_the_ethical/ https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3jq1xm/goal... Here's a post about EA giving early access to Reddit mods, who didn't disclose it. 2000 upvotes: https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3c8wze/ethics_ea_gave_the_mods_of_rstarwarsbattlefront/ https://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/3c8wze/ethi... There's definitely a constituency among gamers.