5 ms·

>> U.S. citizens must use an arduous “new form implemented on the basis of reciprocity” that has 41 often-intrusive questions. I got a chuckle out of that. Rec

>> U.S. citizens must use an arduous “new form implemented on the basis of reciprocity” that has 41 often-intrusive questions. I got a chuckle out of that. Reciprocity indeed! Apart from the military and charity service question, it sounds like a copy paste of the US' own DS160 form. It does seem to be missing my favorite questions from the DS160 though: 1) are you a terrorist and 2) have you committed genocide?

grecy 11y ago
It's hilarious he would complain when it's simply reciprocity. It's almost like he's clueless that's how many people are treated when trying to visit the US. I had first hand experience of this in Bolivia when all the American backpackers were complaining they had to pay $100USD to get into Bolivia. Yes, that's because that's how much it costs Bolivian's to get into the US. Think about how much money that is for these people. Oh.
- greeneggs 11y ago
  What is the logic for reciprocity? Isn't it better to treat tourists well, regardless of their own countries' policies? By treating American tourists poorly, do they think those tourists will pressure the US government to relax its border controls?
  - kuschku 11y ago
    Just speculating: Maybe making sure that if a discussion about border controls comes up in the US, enough people know how bad it is to go through them themselves and vote against them?
    - maaku 11y ago
      Since when did US populace vote in border controls?
      - kuschku 11y ago
        Not directly, but if the population doesn’t want stronger controls, no presidential candidate will pick it up.
        maaku 11y ago
        What matters is what a sitting president will do. Unfortunately that doesn't correlate very well with what presidential candidates say.
  - grecy 11y ago
    >What is the logic for reciprocity I don't pretend to know, but I can think of a few possible reasons: ^ Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. ^ Educate foreigners about the realities of how their country treats other people (obviously many don't know, even the author of the article is seemingly clueless). ^ Change the policies of their home country (as you suggest). ^ Realize that for an American, $100 is not a lot of money, so it's a good source of revenue in itself. ^ Realize that Bolivia is absolutely, jaw-droppingly stunning, and any American traveling in South America won't let the little $100 fee stop them, because it's clearly worth it.
rdtsc 11y ago
The citizenship / permanent residency forms are also full of those questions. They seem stupid and ridiculous. But not completely. The logic goes that you if you are terrorist or committed genocide and lied, signed you name under it, they'll have a very quick way to expel or imprison you (or do water). If not for the original problem (terrorism or genocide) but at least for lying about it.
brc 11y ago
I was having dinner with American colleagues once. We were talking about passports or visas, and I told them about the stupid questions - are you a nazi? Are you a spy? They didn't believe me until I found a copy of the form on Google images. You literally have to declare you are not a nazi spy to gain entry to the USA. Something not many Americans are aware are of.
- Ankaios 11y ago
  Why do you think those questions are stupid?
  - brc 11y ago
    How many people are still alive could possibly be members of the Nazi party? It hasn't existed for 70 years. That's stupid. Asking me if I'm a spy? Has anyone ever answered yes?
    - ekimekim 11y ago
      I just assumed those questions were so that they could charge you for lying later if you did turn out to be a spy/terrorist/etc. Not sure why that would matter when you're also getting arrested for spying / committing a terrorist act, but whatever.
      - brc 11y ago
        Right, if you're arrested for spying, hardly seems worth it to throw in a 'lying on visa form' charge as well. Pretty sure you're not going to get another visa if convicted.
  - Symbiote 11y ago
    I assumed it was easier to force someone to leave because they "lied" on that form than going through the proper process. My family was searched and questioned crossing into the US from Canada, on our British passports. The American relatives we were visiting were unimpressed.
MagnumOpus 11y ago
They are almost certainly question-for-question copy-pastes of US visa forms. I remember the questions about military service details, weapons experience and countries visited from my student visa 15 years ago. (Apparently DS160/DS260 has done away with some of the more pointless questions.)
sytelus 11y ago
another fun fact: Russia requires Australian citizens to write their biography in Russian for Visa application, again it's reciprocity :).
ansgri 11y ago
Indeed, I've instantly recognized exactly the questions from US visa application form for Russians.

grecy 11y ago

It's hilarious he would complain when it's simply reciprocity. It's almost like he's clueless that's how many people are treated when trying to visit the US. I had first hand experience of this in Bolivia when all the American backpackers were complaining they had to pay $100USD to get into Bolivia. Yes, that's because that's how much it costs Bolivian's to get into the US. Think about how much money that is for these people. Oh.

greeneggs 11y ago
What is the logic for reciprocity? Isn't it better to treat tourists well, regardless of their own countries' policies? By treating American tourists poorly, do they think those tourists will pressure the US government to relax its border controls?
- kuschku 11y ago
  Just speculating: Maybe making sure that if a discussion about border controls comes up in the US, enough people know how bad it is to go through them themselves and vote against them?
  - maaku 11y ago
    Since when did US populace vote in border controls?
    - kuschku 11y ago
      Not directly, but if the population doesn’t want stronger controls, no presidential candidate will pick it up.
      - maaku 11y ago
        What matters is what a sitting president will do. Unfortunately that doesn't correlate very well with what presidential candidates say.
- grecy 11y ago
  >What is the logic for reciprocity I don't pretend to know, but I can think of a few possible reasons: ^ Do unto others what you would have them do unto you. ^ Educate foreigners about the realities of how their country treats other people (obviously many don't know, even the author of the article is seemingly clueless). ^ Change the policies of their home country (as you suggest). ^ Realize that for an American, $100 is not a lot of money, so it's a good source of revenue in itself. ^ Realize that Bolivia is absolutely, jaw-droppingly stunning, and any American traveling in South America won't let the little $100 fee stop them, because it's clearly worth it.

rdtsc 11y ago

The citizenship / permanent residency forms are also full of those questions. They seem stupid and ridiculous. But not completely. The logic goes that you if you are terrorist or committed genocide and lied, signed you name under it, they'll have a very quick way to expel or imprison you (or do water). If not for the original problem (terrorism or genocide) but at least for lying about it.

brc 11y ago

I was having dinner with American colleagues once. We were talking about passports or visas, and I told them about the stupid questions - are you a nazi? Are you a spy? They didn't believe me until I found a copy of the form on Google images. You literally have to declare you are not a nazi spy to gain entry to the USA. Something not many Americans are aware are of.

Ankaios 11y ago
Why do you think those questions are stupid?
- brc 11y ago
  How many people are still alive could possibly be members of the Nazi party? It hasn't existed for 70 years. That's stupid. Asking me if I'm a spy? Has anyone ever answered yes?
  - ekimekim 11y ago
    I just assumed those questions were so that they could charge you for lying later if you did turn out to be a spy/terrorist/etc. Not sure why that would matter when you're also getting arrested for spying / committing a terrorist act, but whatever.
    - brc 11y ago
      Right, if you're arrested for spying, hardly seems worth it to throw in a 'lying on visa form' charge as well. Pretty sure you're not going to get another visa if convicted.
- Symbiote 11y ago
  I assumed it was easier to force someone to leave because they "lied" on that form than going through the proper process. My family was searched and questioned crossing into the US from Canada, on our British passports. The American relatives we were visiting were unimpressed.

MagnumOpus 11y ago

They are almost certainly question-for-question copy-pastes of US visa forms. I remember the questions about military service details, weapons experience and countries visited from my student visa 15 years ago. (Apparently DS160/DS260 has done away with some of the more pointless questions.)

sytelus 11y ago

another fun fact: Russia requires Australian citizens to write their biography in Russian for Visa application, again it's reciprocity :).

ansgri 11y ago

Indeed, I've instantly recognized exactly the questions from US visa application form for Russians.