6 ms·

How to Ace a Phone Screen

99 points by jameshsi 11y ago

mikestew 11y ago
I don't think "make a hummingbird with CSS" is really a universal way to ace a phone screen. A more appropriate article title might be "how I aced a phone screen at zenfits.com".
- myth_buster 11y ago
  I think the takeaway is that it's a competitive jungle out there and some companies may appreciate your effort to standout from the rest.
- puranjay 11y ago
  "How I aced a front-end engineering phone screen at Zenefits.com" more like it
iamleppert 11y ago
Awesome bird dude! You're hired!
JoelSutherland 11y ago
This is not really the attitude a company should have when they manage benefits: On the flip side, with so many people contributing code mistakes are bound to happen. That’s normal – after all we’re all just people, and people make mistakes. One thing that I’ve found particularly admirable about our team here is that people own up right away, and strive to fix things as fast as possible. No one wants to ship buggy code, but it happens. The nice thing about working with so many smart and friendly devs though is that you can trust that someone will be there to catch you if you fall and help you fix things. We've caught and reported 4-5 bugs in production to Zenefits on really basic features. Three of our employees have now been asked to send a screenshot of the dashboard with the JS console open...
- hellbanner 11y ago
  When working for a devshop a while back, one of our programmers discovered a SQL injection by using some non-alphabet characters in their health insurance password... We informed them. Never checked to see if it was fixed :)
- Someone1234 11y ago
  > This is not really the attitude a company should have when they manage benefits Why exactly? They are talking at the individual employee level, not company wide. The statement above is: "[As an individual developer] it is ok to make mistakes, just own up to them and take responsibility." They didn't touch on test coverage, integration Vs. unit testing, code reviews, UI automated testing, code quality inspections (both automated and manual), regression testing, external audits, or a whole bunch of other things a company can do to improve the quality of their software over the medium to long term. These exist to help mitigate an individual's errors. If we take what you said above at face value, you're essentially saying: "It is unacceptable for an individual employee at a company who manages benefits to make mistakes ever period." Which when re-phased like that is patently absurd. Your anecdotes above may be legitimate reasons to gripe about the quality of Zenefits' software. But these are issues with organisational quality, not individual quality. Individuals can and will make mistakes at any endeavour no matter how mission or life critical, the way organisations detect and resolve these mistakes is what is key to quality, not pretending that people should be mistake free, that's a pipe dream.
  - eykanal 11y ago
    The problem isn't with the first part ("it's OK to make mistakes"), it's with the second ("just own up"). When a mistake is made, it's because some part of the benefit coding process failed. I work in an insurance company where 100% of benefits coding changes are put through QC, and then another 25% are put through a second level of QC. The costs of screwing this up are pretty high, and will make people pretty mad. You need to have a process where the vast majority of mistakes are caught before they get out the door. I really can't speak for the company—it's just a single sentence in a blog post on an otherwise unrelated topic—but I imagine that's what the OP was thinking about.
x0x0 11y ago
Just make sure not to publicly discuss your deal/doubts about the company or the ceo will tantrum and revoke it. And then, in a bold stand for integrity, edit his answer to remove the offer revokation. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-way-to-start-my-career-Uber-or-Zenefits?s=1 https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-way-to-start-my-caree... http://www.businessinsider.com/zenefits-ceo-rescinds-job-offer-on-quora-2015-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/zenefits-ceo-rescinds-job-off...
- Yhippa 11y ago
  This is the kind of stuff that haunts companies when prospective employees are doing research on where to work. Not easy to get rid of either.
  - hobs 11y ago
    Yep, I wouldn't work at a company that was unhappy I didn't drink the koolaid before I even began working there.
- dvt 11y ago
  Came in here to post exactly this. Publicly rescinding an employee offer by a CEO is amateur hour and shows a clear sign of immaturity. Caveat emptor.
  - x0x0 11y ago
    If you read the complaint, the potential employee essentially worries that zenefits won't be technically challenging and it won't be a name brand place that opens doors by having it on your resume. And if we're honest, the 2nd bit is definitely important for your career. A ceo who isn't a prick might have said we understand your concerns: here's [blah blah blah] reasons that our work is more technically challenging than it may appear from the outside or from your limited time interviewing here, and it's a personal and/or company goal to be recognized for the quality of our technical achievements as a peer of google. I happen to think that zenefits is not particularly technically challenging and is mostly wiring together integrations with 3rd party systems, but I'm open to being wrong. Nonetheless, this might have won them the employee without being a dick.
Yhippa 11y ago
This is very much unlike the phone screens I've been through. Most of mine involve the recruiter trying to see if I can back up the words I said on my resume to see if I am worthy for a technical interview. This article did little to tell me how to ace it other than a little snippet of "I did a cool project to stand out". Which, admittedly, is cool, but I don't feel like it gave many tips on how to "ace" the phone screen. Also the end was basically an ad for Zenefits (well done).
strong_code 11y ago
I had the opportunity to speak with Albert on a developer panel and he told this story (we were speaking to software developers that had just begun their job search). He's a very nice guy and I think this is great, general advice for people just beginning to step into the world of software development and don't quite yet have a resume that can "wow" people. I'm glad to see Zenefits recognized that.
logfromblammo 11y ago
The CSS hummingbird is cool. It shows off the awesome ability of the software professional to take a half dozen stupid, illogical constraints and somehow end up with something that works anyway. The problem is that companies would not need to select for this quality if they could avoid imposing stupid, illogical constraints in the first place. So the obvious followup question I would ask first would have been, "Why did you choose to do this with CSS rather than with a language designed for vector graphics, like SVG?" Shall we also hire all the other people who can make their cats bark and their dogs meow?
- baddox 11y ago
  I don't think making cats bark would be very relevant to an Internet technology company, but it would probably be a good sign in a relevant industry (say, a company that trains animals). That's the point. This person did a neat little project that uses skills which are directly relevant to the job being applied for. The project probably isn't actually useful on its own, but it shows interest and ability.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- dimgl 11y ago
  I also thought about this as well. At first I even thought it was an SVG image. Don't get me wrong, it's pretty damn awesome that he was able to use CSS transforms to create that but...why? I guess it shows how to think critically and maybe he did it in CSS because it's backwards compatible. I don't know. I don't know the backwards compatibility of CSS transforms vs. SVG.
minimaxir 11y ago
I'm not fond of the implication that you can get an interview/job from pandering to Zenefits by working on a project that promotes their brand.
- ohitsdom 11y ago
  I viewed his little creation as "extra credit". It shows he knows Sass/CSS and makes him standout from other "boring" interviewees that may have possessed similar skillsets. Why not make it about their brand? It shows his desire that he wants to work there, and it's also clear he just made this. It isn't some cool thing he did awhile ago and is showing many different companies in interviews. He wants to work there, and that initiative shown will go a long way (and was successful, in this case). Worst-case scenario is that he doesn't get the job but spent the night learning more about pseudo elements and how the interact with other elements. That's a win-win.
wf 11y ago
Interesting, I didn't know Zenefits did phone screens, they sent me a ~3 hour coding challenge to do over... I can't recall the services name atm.
nmridul 11y ago
And I thought this was about smart phone display ...
Xyik 11y ago
Click-bait ... doesn't tell us at all about Zenefit's hiring process at the present at all, or how to 'ace' them.
adnam 11y ago
Ah, the innocence of youth.
Animats 11y ago
Trying to draw by writing HTML text is like pounding a screw. It's the wrong tool for the job. If you want to draw Zenefit's hummingbird, use an SVG draw program. Inkscape is free and can do that job. As a way to get past HR idiots, it may be useful.
ohitsdom 11y ago
I like the approach of a small, fun task as "extra credit". But how do you smoothly bring that up in the interview? I guess if you're being asked about CSS technical details, you can mention you built this last night and ask if they'd like to see it. But I'm pretty sure due to nerves, I would make that really awkward. Like I'd answer the phone and shout "LOOK AT WHAT I MADE!"
- kmdev 11y ago
  I imagine you'd: A. Include it with your resume before hand B. Bring it up when asked about previous experience tangential to it C. Bring it up when asked about your outside work activities or what sort of continuing professional development you've been doing lately D. Mention it when asked about the "coolest/most fun" thing you've hacked on lately E. Whip it out when asked the usual "what do you think we do here and what can you bring to the table" Or, when you start asking your questions about the company/culture/ect. (DEFINITELY ask those types of questions), weave it in with a question about what kind of side-project or 20% type program they offer/support. You could also throw it up on a design site or your blog and drop it in whichever social media channel they may have. Cultivating a curious attitude (or sincerely making an effort to fake it) will help calm your nerves a bit as well.
Tloewald 11y ago
I think the answer is "appear to be the person they want to hire" with the extra degree of difficulty being you don't know the person they want to hire. On the other hand, who wants to be hired under false pretenses? Not I.
codeonfire 11y ago
Trying to flatter an employer by doing a lot of pointless work is dumb and says something negative about the employers who respond. The "typical" way to ace a phone screen is: 1. be young and just out of college 2. pay more money to the person who wrote cracking the code interview and memorize the problems 3. Scan glassdoor and other sites for interview questions that the interviewers will, as predicted, lazily reuse. The real way to ace a phone screen is not to be involved in one.
- kmdev 11y ago
  Obviously, this isn't something to do for every place you apply to. However, for those at the top of your list, as is mentioned in the piece, riffing their design or code when you're practicing or wanting to expand your skillset anyway is a great idea. Two birds, one stone and all that.
robalfonso 11y ago
Anyone else getting spammed by these guys? I got like 3-4 emails the other day from them, really annoying too, saying the'd looked into what we were doing for our HR etc and thought they could help, except for they were sending emails to an employee who hadn't been with us for a year (email forwarded to me), so not really looking at what we do and how we do it, just disingenuous marketing drivel.
crucini 11y ago
Albert's hack is definitely impressive, and would make him stand out. I'm surprised at some nay-sayers here. Suggesting he use SVG? Nothing impressive about that. I phone screen a lot, and would be impressed by Albert. However, if you are strong on resume, knowledge, and interviewing, you don't need any special tricks. I think such tricks are important if your resume does not support the position you're seeking: either a mediocre school, no degree, long unemployment, or switching industries. As for acing a phone screen - no silver bullets here, but it pays to know something about the company and the screener. I know we're just company #923 to you, but don't show that.
kzhahou 11y ago
TLDR: Zenefits is an awesome company to work for and is growing like crazy. Also, do something to stand out during the phone screen.
coleifer 11y ago
Funnily enough I used to work with Albert Treat at the "biotech startup" in South San Francisco. He's an incredibly talented individual, very driven, and contributed massively to the work done at that company. Great advice, Albert! I'm glad you like your new job, too :)
fortpoint 11y ago
Speaking as a hiring manager, showing me a cool hack is nice but acing a phone screen requires: * you know something about my company and why you want to work here (visit our corp. site, interrogate the recruiter, read up on our press and know something about our space) * you know what we're looking for and understand that we're talking to you because there's some intersection between your experience and our search criteria. * for that intersection in the venn diagram of our candidate requirements and your resume, brush up a little so that you can speak to how you used technology X. If it was 2 years ago or less know it well... if we're talking 10 years ago being more general is fine. * be able to describe how you got to where you are in your career and where you want to go. * know who you're talking to in the phone screen and LISTEN to what they're asking you. i can't count how many folks i ask to describe how they built a particular solution go on to just ramble on about feature descriptions and process without ever getting to how something was built.
- brogrammer90 11y ago
  Anybody with actual experience and skills doesn't give a rats ass about your company's mission. And are you seriously asking devs about where they want to be in 5 years? I hope you're not any older than 30.
namuol 11y ago
Ah yes, nothing says "I'm a team player" quite like a pile of opaque hacks abusing the wrong technology...
mikepalmer 11y ago
It's not Safari / mobile Safari compatible! -10 points! It is supposed to be a PHONE screen after all. ;-)

99 points by jameshsi 11y ago

I don't think "make a hummingbird with CSS" is really a universal way to ace a phone screen. A more appropriate article title might be "how I aced a phone screen at zenfits.com".

myth_buster 11y ago
I think the takeaway is that it's a competitive jungle out there and some companies may appreciate your effort to standout from the rest.
puranjay 11y ago
"How I aced a front-end engineering phone screen at Zenefits.com" more like it

iamleppert 11y ago

Awesome bird dude! You're hired!

JoelSutherland 11y ago

This is not really the attitude a company should have when they manage benefits: On the flip side, with so many people contributing code mistakes are bound to happen. That’s normal – after all we’re all just people, and people make mistakes. One thing that I’ve found particularly admirable about our team here is that people own up right away, and strive to fix things as fast as possible. No one wants to ship buggy code, but it happens. The nice thing about working with so many smart and friendly devs though is that you can trust that someone will be there to catch you if you fall and help you fix things. We've caught and reported 4-5 bugs in production to Zenefits on really basic features. Three of our employees have now been asked to send a screenshot of the dashboard with the JS console open...

hellbanner 11y ago
When working for a devshop a while back, one of our programmers discovered a SQL injection by using some non-alphabet characters in their health insurance password... We informed them. Never checked to see if it was fixed :)
Someone1234 11y ago
> This is not really the attitude a company should have when they manage benefits Why exactly? They are talking at the individual employee level, not company wide. The statement above is: "[As an individual developer] it is ok to make mistakes, just own up to them and take responsibility." They didn't touch on test coverage, integration Vs. unit testing, code reviews, UI automated testing, code quality inspections (both automated and manual), regression testing, external audits, or a whole bunch of other things a company can do to improve the quality of their software over the medium to long term. These exist to help mitigate an individual's errors. If we take what you said above at face value, you're essentially saying: "It is unacceptable for an individual employee at a company who manages benefits to make mistakes ever period." Which when re-phased like that is patently absurd. Your anecdotes above may be legitimate reasons to gripe about the quality of Zenefits' software. But these are issues with organisational quality, not individual quality. Individuals can and will make mistakes at any endeavour no matter how mission or life critical, the way organisations detect and resolve these mistakes is what is key to quality, not pretending that people should be mistake free, that's a pipe dream.
- eykanal 11y ago
  The problem isn't with the first part ("it's OK to make mistakes"), it's with the second ("just own up"). When a mistake is made, it's because some part of the benefit coding process failed. I work in an insurance company where 100% of benefits coding changes are put through QC, and then another 25% are put through a second level of QC. The costs of screwing this up are pretty high, and will make people pretty mad. You need to have a process where the vast majority of mistakes are caught before they get out the door. I really can't speak for the company—it's just a single sentence in a blog post on an otherwise unrelated topic—but I imagine that's what the OP was thinking about.

x0x0 11y ago

Just make sure not to publicly discuss your deal/doubts about the company or the ceo will tantrum and revoke it. And then, in a bold stand for integrity, edit his answer to remove the offer revokation. https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-way-to-start-my-career-Uber-or-Zenefits?s=1 https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-best-way-to-start-my-caree... http://www.businessinsider.com/zenefits-ceo-rescinds-job-offer-on-quora-2015-5 http://www.businessinsider.com/zenefits-ceo-rescinds-job-off...

Yhippa 11y ago
This is the kind of stuff that haunts companies when prospective employees are doing research on where to work. Not easy to get rid of either.
- hobs 11y ago
  Yep, I wouldn't work at a company that was unhappy I didn't drink the koolaid before I even began working there.
dvt 11y ago
Came in here to post exactly this. Publicly rescinding an employee offer by a CEO is amateur hour and shows a clear sign of immaturity. Caveat emptor.
- x0x0 11y ago
  If you read the complaint, the potential employee essentially worries that zenefits won't be technically challenging and it won't be a name brand place that opens doors by having it on your resume. And if we're honest, the 2nd bit is definitely important for your career. A ceo who isn't a prick might have said we understand your concerns: here's [blah blah blah] reasons that our work is more technically challenging than it may appear from the outside or from your limited time interviewing here, and it's a personal and/or company goal to be recognized for the quality of our technical achievements as a peer of google. I happen to think that zenefits is not particularly technically challenging and is mostly wiring together integrations with 3rd party systems, but I'm open to being wrong. Nonetheless, this might have won them the employee without being a dick.

Yhippa 11y ago

This is very much unlike the phone screens I've been through. Most of mine involve the recruiter trying to see if I can back up the words I said on my resume to see if I am worthy for a technical interview. This article did little to tell me how to ace it other than a little snippet of "I did a cool project to stand out". Which, admittedly, is cool, but I don't feel like it gave many tips on how to "ace" the phone screen. Also the end was basically an ad for Zenefits (well done).

strong_code 11y ago

I had the opportunity to speak with Albert on a developer panel and he told this story (we were speaking to software developers that had just begun their job search). He's a very nice guy and I think this is great, general advice for people just beginning to step into the world of software development and don't quite yet have a resume that can "wow" people. I'm glad to see Zenefits recognized that.

logfromblammo 11y ago

The CSS hummingbird is cool. It shows off the awesome ability of the software professional to take a half dozen stupid, illogical constraints and somehow end up with something that works anyway. The problem is that companies would not need to select for this quality if they could avoid imposing stupid, illogical constraints in the first place. So the obvious followup question I would ask first would have been, "Why did you choose to do this with CSS rather than with a language designed for vector graphics, like SVG?" Shall we also hire all the other people who can make their cats bark and their dogs meow?

baddox 11y ago
I don't think making cats bark would be very relevant to an Internet technology company, but it would probably be a good sign in a relevant industry (say, a company that trains animals). That's the point. This person did a neat little project that uses skills which are directly relevant to the job being applied for. The project probably isn't actually useful on its own, but it shows interest and ability.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
dimgl 11y ago
I also thought about this as well. At first I even thought it was an SVG image. Don't get me wrong, it's pretty damn awesome that he was able to use CSS transforms to create that but...why? I guess it shows how to think critically and maybe he did it in CSS because it's backwards compatible. I don't know. I don't know the backwards compatibility of CSS transforms vs. SVG.

minimaxir 11y ago

I'm not fond of the implication that you can get an interview/job from pandering to Zenefits by working on a project that promotes their brand.

ohitsdom 11y ago
I viewed his little creation as "extra credit". It shows he knows Sass/CSS and makes him standout from other "boring" interviewees that may have possessed similar skillsets. Why not make it about their brand? It shows his desire that he wants to work there, and it's also clear he just made this. It isn't some cool thing he did awhile ago and is showing many different companies in interviews. He wants to work there, and that initiative shown will go a long way (and was successful, in this case). Worst-case scenario is that he doesn't get the job but spent the night learning more about pseudo elements and how the interact with other elements. That's a win-win.

wf 11y ago

Interesting, I didn't know Zenefits did phone screens, they sent me a ~3 hour coding challenge to do over... I can't recall the services name atm.

nmridul 11y ago

And I thought this was about smart phone display ...

Xyik 11y ago

Click-bait ... doesn't tell us at all about Zenefit's hiring process at the present at all, or how to 'ace' them.

adnam 11y ago

Ah, the innocence of youth.

Animats 11y ago

Trying to draw by writing HTML text is like pounding a screw. It's the wrong tool for the job. If you want to draw Zenefit's hummingbird, use an SVG draw program. Inkscape is free and can do that job. As a way to get past HR idiots, it may be useful.

ohitsdom 11y ago

I like the approach of a small, fun task as "extra credit". But how do you smoothly bring that up in the interview? I guess if you're being asked about CSS technical details, you can mention you built this last night and ask if they'd like to see it. But I'm pretty sure due to nerves, I would make that really awkward. Like I'd answer the phone and shout "LOOK AT WHAT I MADE!"

kmdev 11y ago
I imagine you'd: A. Include it with your resume before hand B. Bring it up when asked about previous experience tangential to it C. Bring it up when asked about your outside work activities or what sort of continuing professional development you've been doing lately D. Mention it when asked about the "coolest/most fun" thing you've hacked on lately E. Whip it out when asked the usual "what do you think we do here and what can you bring to the table" Or, when you start asking your questions about the company/culture/ect. (DEFINITELY ask those types of questions), weave it in with a question about what kind of side-project or 20% type program they offer/support. You could also throw it up on a design site or your blog and drop it in whichever social media channel they may have. Cultivating a curious attitude (or sincerely making an effort to fake it) will help calm your nerves a bit as well.

Tloewald 11y ago

I think the answer is "appear to be the person they want to hire" with the extra degree of difficulty being you don't know the person they want to hire. On the other hand, who wants to be hired under false pretenses? Not I.

codeonfire 11y ago

Trying to flatter an employer by doing a lot of pointless work is dumb and says something negative about the employers who respond. The "typical" way to ace a phone screen is: 1. be young and just out of college 2. pay more money to the person who wrote cracking the code interview and memorize the problems 3. Scan glassdoor and other sites for interview questions that the interviewers will, as predicted, lazily reuse. The real way to ace a phone screen is not to be involved in one.

kmdev 11y ago
Obviously, this isn't something to do for every place you apply to. However, for those at the top of your list, as is mentioned in the piece, riffing their design or code when you're practicing or wanting to expand your skillset anyway is a great idea. Two birds, one stone and all that.

robalfonso 11y ago

Anyone else getting spammed by these guys? I got like 3-4 emails the other day from them, really annoying too, saying the'd looked into what we were doing for our HR etc and thought they could help, except for they were sending emails to an employee who hadn't been with us for a year (email forwarded to me), so not really looking at what we do and how we do it, just disingenuous marketing drivel.

crucini 11y ago

Albert's hack is definitely impressive, and would make him stand out. I'm surprised at some nay-sayers here. Suggesting he use SVG? Nothing impressive about that. I phone screen a lot, and would be impressed by Albert. However, if you are strong on resume, knowledge, and interviewing, you don't need any special tricks. I think such tricks are important if your resume does not support the position you're seeking: either a mediocre school, no degree, long unemployment, or switching industries. As for acing a phone screen - no silver bullets here, but it pays to know something about the company and the screener. I know we're just company #923 to you, but don't show that.

kzhahou 11y ago

TLDR: Zenefits is an awesome company to work for and is growing like crazy. Also, do something to stand out during the phone screen.

coleifer 11y ago

Funnily enough I used to work with Albert Treat at the "biotech startup" in South San Francisco. He's an incredibly talented individual, very driven, and contributed massively to the work done at that company. Great advice, Albert! I'm glad you like your new job, too :)

fortpoint 11y ago

Speaking as a hiring manager, showing me a cool hack is nice but acing a phone screen requires: * you know something about my company and why you want to work here (visit our corp. site, interrogate the recruiter, read up on our press and know something about our space) * you know what we're looking for and understand that we're talking to you because there's some intersection between your experience and our search criteria. * for that intersection in the venn diagram of our candidate requirements and your resume, brush up a little so that you can speak to how you used technology X. If it was 2 years ago or less know it well... if we're talking 10 years ago being more general is fine. * be able to describe how you got to where you are in your career and where you want to go. * know who you're talking to in the phone screen and LISTEN to what they're asking you. i can't count how many folks i ask to describe how they built a particular solution go on to just ramble on about feature descriptions and process without ever getting to how something was built.

brogrammer90 11y ago
Anybody with actual experience and skills doesn't give a rats ass about your company's mission. And are you seriously asking devs about where they want to be in 5 years? I hope you're not any older than 30.

namuol 11y ago

Ah yes, nothing says "I'm a team player" quite like a pile of opaque hacks abusing the wrong technology...

mikepalmer 11y ago

It's not Safari / mobile Safari compatible! -10 points! It is supposed to be a PHONE screen after all. ;-)