4 ms·

rmxt I don't think there's much point debating with this guy. He's not interested in learning and sharing his understanding. Only interested in proving he's rig

by ashleyp 11y ago

rmxt I don't think there's much point debating with this guy. He's not interested in learning and sharing his understanding. Only interested in proving he's right and I'm not even sure he knows what he's trying to prove right anymore. He's finding anything he can to backup his argument, not sharing sources that he used to formulate his opinions.

jbssm 11y ago
Me and another commenter, already posted all the sources. It's you that are trying to see if they disappear. Here they are again in case your blindness allows you to see the facts against your incoherent opinions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#Sharia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#Sh... http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article108659406/Tuerkische-Migranten-hoffen-auf-muslimische-Mehrheit.html http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article108659406/Tuer... http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/ http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi...
- rmxt 11y ago
  You've actually posted "sources" that disagree with your original claim. In case you've forgotten: "More than 50% of these refugees believe that whoever leaves the faith of Islam should suffer the death penalty and that adultery should be dealt with stoning to death." 1. You've posted nothing about refugees. The German article talks about Turkish immigrants in general. The Pew poll talks about Muslims in their native lands. Since when are these terms equivalent terms? 2. Even if we take if((Muslims in the UK == refugees) == TRUE), your Wikipedia source explicitly contradicts your original statement. Only 36% of a small age cohort believes that people that leave the faith of Islam should suffer a horrible fate. That number is even less for Muslims outside of that age bracket. Regardless, the group "Muslims in the UK" is not strictly equivalent to "refugees" no matter how much you wish it to be true. 3. Lastly, you disregard all of the information that suggests immigrants actually feel like they belong to their new homelands. Yes, as you've shown, some Muslims have beliefs that Westerners might consider vile (e.g., death penalty for conversion), but the fact of the matter is that in both the UK and Germany the majority of the Muslims polled actually feel like they are part of the country. I am not trying to make anything disappear: I've acknowledged and addressed every source you have posted, yet you cannot come up with anything more than "Muslims are scary" and "They don't assimilate" despite what actual research shows. Furthermore, you hypocritically suggest that we should single out Muslims for their religious beliefs, in the name of "protect[ing] the social freedom values we hold dear in the West." How can you support "freedom of religion," one of the foremost in the pantheon of social freedoms, while saying that you want to filter immigrants/refugees based on their religion? In case you missed it here [1]: "We conclude that Muslim migrants do not move to Western countries with rigidly fixed attitudes; instead, they gradually absorb much of the host culture, as assimilation theories suggest." I get the impression that you don't step outside your comfort zone very often, much less interact with people of different faiths or races in your daily life. Before you put words in my mouth, I never once suggest we tolerate murder or stoning. People who take action on beliefs like that should be vigorously persecuted. Until then, I don't think it's much different than asking a Christian, "Would a non-believer go to Hell when they die?" That is to say, it's a hypothetical question of faith, not one of action. Feel free to disagree with that opinion, but at least acknowledge that in doing so you're running afoul of the "social freedom values" that you so dearly want to protect. [1] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9248.2012.00951.x/abstract;jsessionid=37FB065EF9C38CFD45BC9B5985A5767C.f02t03?userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage= http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9248.2012....
- dang 11y ago
  > in case your blindness allows you to see the facts against your incoherent opinions > you took hypocrisy to an all new level with that comment > in case you intellectual honesty doesn't allow you to figure out Comments like these break the HN guidelines in a bunch of ways. Please don't post like that here.

by ashleyp 11y ago

jbssm 11y ago

Me and another commenter, already posted all the sources. It's you that are trying to see if they disappear. Here they are again in case your blindness allows you to see the facts against your incoherent opinions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#Sharia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_the_United_Kingdom#Sh... http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article108659406/Tuerkische-Migranten-hoffen-auf-muslimische-Mehrheit.html http://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article108659406/Tuer... http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/ http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi...

rmxt 11y ago
You've actually posted "sources" that disagree with your original claim. In case you've forgotten: "More than 50% of these refugees believe that whoever leaves the faith of Islam should suffer the death penalty and that adultery should be dealt with stoning to death." 1. You've posted nothing about refugees. The German article talks about Turkish immigrants in general. The Pew poll talks about Muslims in their native lands. Since when are these terms equivalent terms? 2. Even if we take if((Muslims in the UK == refugees) == TRUE), your Wikipedia source explicitly contradicts your original statement. Only 36% of a small age cohort believes that people that leave the faith of Islam should suffer a horrible fate. That number is even less for Muslims outside of that age bracket. Regardless, the group "Muslims in the UK" is not strictly equivalent to "refugees" no matter how much you wish it to be true. 3. Lastly, you disregard all of the information that suggests immigrants actually feel like they belong to their new homelands. Yes, as you've shown, some Muslims have beliefs that Westerners might consider vile (e.g., death penalty for conversion), but the fact of the matter is that in both the UK and Germany the majority of the Muslims polled actually feel like they are part of the country. I am not trying to make anything disappear: I've acknowledged and addressed every source you have posted, yet you cannot come up with anything more than "Muslims are scary" and "They don't assimilate" despite what actual research shows. Furthermore, you hypocritically suggest that we should single out Muslims for their religious beliefs, in the name of "protect[ing] the social freedom values we hold dear in the West." How can you support "freedom of religion," one of the foremost in the pantheon of social freedoms, while saying that you want to filter immigrants/refugees based on their religion? In case you missed it here [1]: "We conclude that Muslim migrants do not move to Western countries with rigidly fixed attitudes; instead, they gradually absorb much of the host culture, as assimilation theories suggest." I get the impression that you don't step outside your comfort zone very often, much less interact with people of different faiths or races in your daily life. Before you put words in my mouth, I never once suggest we tolerate murder or stoning. People who take action on beliefs like that should be vigorously persecuted. Until then, I don't think it's much different than asking a Christian, "Would a non-believer go to Hell when they die?" That is to say, it's a hypothetical question of faith, not one of action. Feel free to disagree with that opinion, but at least acknowledge that in doing so you're running afoul of the "social freedom values" that you so dearly want to protect. [1] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9248.2012.00951.x/abstract;jsessionid=37FB065EF9C38CFD45BC9B5985A5767C.f02t03?userIsAuthenticated=false&deniedAccessCustomisedMessage= http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9248.2012....
dang 11y ago
> in case your blindness allows you to see the facts against your incoherent opinions > you took hypocrisy to an all new level with that comment > in case you intellectual honesty doesn't allow you to figure out Comments like these break the HN guidelines in a bunch of ways. Please don't post like that here.