5 ms·

The United States has been working on a coup for Maduro, since its coup of Chavez hasn't worked out for it. This time it would really like to install Leonardo L

The United States has been working on a coup for Maduro, since its coup of Chavez hasn't worked out for it. This time it would really like to install Leonardo Lopez as he's willing to privatize Venezuelan oil to US companies. The US has been encouraging and organizing protests, gatherings and projecting anti-Maduro sentiment and news into the country. (https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/releasedate/2012-06-18-08-canvas-how-a-us-funded-group-trains-opposition.html https://wikileaks.org/gifiles/releasedate/2012-06-18-08-canv...) It's possible that if their economy (amid new US sanctions) collapse that this could trigger the regime change we've been eyeing and the energy security we've been wanting to establish there. We do have to be careful about CALEC and UNASUR, however. South American countries have been ever moving closer to isolating the US from its multilateral diplomatic plans and are regularly condemning the US for its interference, funding of death squads, war on drugs, and unilateral sanctions of various South American countries. If we take Venezuela we need to make sure that we don't isolate the rest of the continent.

Kinnard 11y ago
Wow
Bonsanto 11y ago
I live in Venezuela and item's prices are raising horrible, let me tell you something I am electrical engineer and computer engineer, and my salary is only 10.3$/month, ridiculous, but his is how socialism works everyone are equalized but to poverty. To buy a car in Venezuela you need to save money for 50 years without buying food supplies, to buy a house it takes 200 years, to buy dollars you need to be a friend of Maduro, my most bright colleagues have left the country so I am.
- pitiburi 11y ago
  I am not in Venezuela, but I work with some guys there. Your "10.3$/month" is a blatant, and pretty absurd lie. If this account created a few minutes ago is going to be used to spread lies, please use it somewhere else, not in HN. We don't need you.
  - kordless 11y ago
    > We don't need you. Don't speak for me. Given at least half of us have no idea what 10.3$/month is, why don't one of you enlighten us and let us draw our own conclusions?
    - chvid 11y ago
      My guess is the poster is referring to the monthly wage of a professional in Venezuela in USD by the black market rate which probably is fairly indicative of the purchasing power. And yes. Venezuela is a touchy subject since its nasty regime sadly is idolized by many left-winged intellectuals in the west.
    - bmelton 11y ago
      So, I'll freely concede that I'm ignorant on the issue, but Bonsanto made an extraordinary claim below (that government forbids buying non-Venezuelan currency) that despite my initial idea, turns out to appear truthful. So, According to this somewhat recent article by Bloomberg[1], "A school teacher with 25 years of experience made 9,786 bolivars a month in 2014. That's about $35 a month at the current black market exchange rate, which won't even buy a used television." It's hard to tell what the actual exchange rate of the bolivar is to the dollar, because apparently Venezuela fixes the exchange rate, so while it's been steady on paper, it appears that in practice, its actual exchange rate is approximately 100 times less than the official exchange rate. The official rate indicates that 1 bolivar == .16 US dollar, but other sources indicate that the effective, actual rate in Venezuela is more like 1 boliver == .0036 US dollars (or, because my simple math skills are horrible, 100 bolivar == 36 US cents.) If that's the case, and I'm not missing something crazy, it doesn't seem far-fetched to me at all that an electrical engineer would be earning the American equivalent of $10.3 US dollars per month, depending on how you define the exchange rate. [1] - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-06/monthly-salary-of-20-shows-why-venezuelans-wait-in-food-lines http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-06/monthly-sa...
      - aortega 11y ago
        The 10.3 u$s per month is possible. You have to remember that using the government exchange rate, food also is very cheap. Gas is almost free, IIRC about 5 or 6 bolivars to fill a tank (about 0.006 u$s I think). The thing is, you cannot buy anything imported because then the real exchange rate goes, and you actually can buy only u$s 10 worth of imported stuff. You are forced yo spend your salary in locally-produced stuff, that actually kinda work for countries like Argentina that produces a lot of stuff (except computers and high-tech products), but do not for Venezuela, that only produces oil. Interestingly, what happens if you go with your US-savings, say, u$s 50000 to Venezuela? well then you are basically a king there. You could buy half a city with that money, thats why they had to put laws to prevent foreigners to do that kind of thing. TLDR: You can be rich with u$s 10/month, as long as you dont leave the country and don't buy anything imported.
- loblollyboy 11y ago
  seems to work just fine in scandinavia
  - xienze 11y ago
    It always works until it doesn't. Sweden will have a particularly tough time in coming years.
    - nextos 11y ago
      Why?
      - xienze 11y ago
        Sweden in particular? Like the rest of Europe, absolutely dismal birth rates and an aging population. Sweden is also particularly gung-ho about granting citizenship to any and everyone who shows up. That places additional strain on the system as the people showing up are a net drain on finances.
      - cb18 11y ago
        Sweden will have a particularly tough time in coming years. Why? Sweden is already in pretty bad shape due to immigration. But a large part of the govt, and dominant information channels are intent on concealing that fact as much as possible for some reason, hard for some people to admit they were wrong I guess. Shockingly enough, Sweden leads the world in rape and school arson. Informative report on the horrible rape numbers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCGedOGCrnQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCGedOGCrnQ Last year the cost for fires in Sweden’s schools ended at about SEK one billion. 457 schools burned in 2009. About half of the fires were caused by arson. However, compared with 2008 fires in schools has decreased, that year 512 schools burned, also then half of them caused by arson. http://www.stockholmnews.com/more.aspx?NID=5029 http://www.stockholmnews.com/more.aspx?NID=5029 (Saying in both years that only half of that already large number were caused by arson seems a little suspect, that seems like a high rate for schools to be combusting from other factors. Well, maybe they are counting chemistry lab mishaps and the like, and the bulk of the cost is coming from schools actually being burned down in arson attacks.) “I don’t know why anybody would want to burn our school,” Ms. Bromster said. “I can’t understand it. Maybe they are not so happy with life.” The riots are not unprecedented here. In 2008 and 2010, immigrants clashed with the police in the southern port city of Malmo. But the past week’s arson attacks in Stockholm, the capital, and the spectacle of teenagers hurling stones at firefighters have left many Swedes wondering what went wrong in a society that has invested so heavily in helping the underprivileged. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/world/europe/swedens-riots-put-its-identity-in-question.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/world/europe/swedens-riots...
dageshi 11y ago
The US is literally producing more oil domestically than it can refine, it's got more cheap domestic oil than it knows what to do with... I don't discount American involvement but I'm not sure that oil is the great driving factor it may have been historically, the Americans are producing enough of their own.
- themeekforgotpw 11y ago
  The long term strategy of the US is to provide energy security to Europe between tar sands, crude, gas and oil. It has multilateral plans with Canada and Mexico to build North-South pipelines to achieve this. Recently the conflict over oil off the shore of Guyana and the documents I linked to above (where it is STATED that the coup is motivated by oil) show recent actions by the US that contradict you. And further it is not merely about TAKING the oil (though it is). Venezuela uses its energy economy to unilaterally fix political outcomes. Think their shipping of oil to Cuba despite US sanctions. The US wants control of that oil.
  - gassius 11y ago
    ... and the current inept Venezuelan Government is making all it can to help US convey it's plans, apparently
sillygeese 11y ago
> If we take Venezuela we need to make sure that we don't isolate the rest of the continent. So you don't see a problem with "you" "taking" Venezuela, as long as the consequences aren't too bad for "you"? Nevermind that other countries are not supposed to be your colonies and nevermind that you, as in, ordinary citizens, won't even benefit from the US "taking" Venezuela.

Kinnard 11y ago

Wow

Bonsanto 11y ago

I live in Venezuela and item's prices are raising horrible, let me tell you something I am electrical engineer and computer engineer, and my salary is only 10.3$/month, ridiculous, but his is how socialism works everyone are equalized but to poverty. To buy a car in Venezuela you need to save money for 50 years without buying food supplies, to buy a house it takes 200 years, to buy dollars you need to be a friend of Maduro, my most bright colleagues have left the country so I am.

pitiburi 11y ago
I am not in Venezuela, but I work with some guys there. Your "10.3$/month" is a blatant, and pretty absurd lie. If this account created a few minutes ago is going to be used to spread lies, please use it somewhere else, not in HN. We don't need you.
- kordless 11y ago
  > We don't need you. Don't speak for me. Given at least half of us have no idea what 10.3$/month is, why don't one of you enlighten us and let us draw our own conclusions?
  - chvid 11y ago
    My guess is the poster is referring to the monthly wage of a professional in Venezuela in USD by the black market rate which probably is fairly indicative of the purchasing power. And yes. Venezuela is a touchy subject since its nasty regime sadly is idolized by many left-winged intellectuals in the west.
  - bmelton 11y ago
    So, I'll freely concede that I'm ignorant on the issue, but Bonsanto made an extraordinary claim below (that government forbids buying non-Venezuelan currency) that despite my initial idea, turns out to appear truthful. So, According to this somewhat recent article by Bloomberg[1], "A school teacher with 25 years of experience made 9,786 bolivars a month in 2014. That's about $35 a month at the current black market exchange rate, which won't even buy a used television." It's hard to tell what the actual exchange rate of the bolivar is to the dollar, because apparently Venezuela fixes the exchange rate, so while it's been steady on paper, it appears that in practice, its actual exchange rate is approximately 100 times less than the official exchange rate. The official rate indicates that 1 bolivar == .16 US dollar, but other sources indicate that the effective, actual rate in Venezuela is more like 1 boliver == .0036 US dollars (or, because my simple math skills are horrible, 100 bolivar == 36 US cents.) If that's the case, and I'm not missing something crazy, it doesn't seem far-fetched to me at all that an electrical engineer would be earning the American equivalent of $10.3 US dollars per month, depending on how you define the exchange rate. [1] - http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-06/monthly-salary-of-20-shows-why-venezuelans-wait-in-food-lines http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-06/monthly-sa...
    - aortega 11y ago
      The 10.3 u$s per month is possible. You have to remember that using the government exchange rate, food also is very cheap. Gas is almost free, IIRC about 5 or 6 bolivars to fill a tank (about 0.006 u$s I think). The thing is, you cannot buy anything imported because then the real exchange rate goes, and you actually can buy only u$s 10 worth of imported stuff. You are forced yo spend your salary in locally-produced stuff, that actually kinda work for countries like Argentina that produces a lot of stuff (except computers and high-tech products), but do not for Venezuela, that only produces oil. Interestingly, what happens if you go with your US-savings, say, u$s 50000 to Venezuela? well then you are basically a king there. You could buy half a city with that money, thats why they had to put laws to prevent foreigners to do that kind of thing. TLDR: You can be rich with u$s 10/month, as long as you dont leave the country and don't buy anything imported.
loblollyboy 11y ago
seems to work just fine in scandinavia
- xienze 11y ago
  It always works until it doesn't. Sweden will have a particularly tough time in coming years.
  - nextos 11y ago
    Why?
    - xienze 11y ago
      Sweden in particular? Like the rest of Europe, absolutely dismal birth rates and an aging population. Sweden is also particularly gung-ho about granting citizenship to any and everyone who shows up. That places additional strain on the system as the people showing up are a net drain on finances.
    - cb18 11y ago
      Sweden will have a particularly tough time in coming years. Why? Sweden is already in pretty bad shape due to immigration. But a large part of the govt, and dominant information channels are intent on concealing that fact as much as possible for some reason, hard for some people to admit they were wrong I guess. Shockingly enough, Sweden leads the world in rape and school arson. Informative report on the horrible rape numbers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCGedOGCrnQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCGedOGCrnQ Last year the cost for fires in Sweden’s schools ended at about SEK one billion. 457 schools burned in 2009. About half of the fires were caused by arson. However, compared with 2008 fires in schools has decreased, that year 512 schools burned, also then half of them caused by arson. http://www.stockholmnews.com/more.aspx?NID=5029 http://www.stockholmnews.com/more.aspx?NID=5029 (Saying in both years that only half of that already large number were caused by arson seems a little suspect, that seems like a high rate for schools to be combusting from other factors. Well, maybe they are counting chemistry lab mishaps and the like, and the bulk of the cost is coming from schools actually being burned down in arson attacks.) “I don’t know why anybody would want to burn our school,” Ms. Bromster said. “I can’t understand it. Maybe they are not so happy with life.” The riots are not unprecedented here. In 2008 and 2010, immigrants clashed with the police in the southern port city of Malmo. But the past week’s arson attacks in Stockholm, the capital, and the spectacle of teenagers hurling stones at firefighters have left many Swedes wondering what went wrong in a society that has invested so heavily in helping the underprivileged. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/world/europe/swedens-riots-put-its-identity-in-question.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/27/world/europe/swedens-riots...

dageshi 11y ago

The US is literally producing more oil domestically than it can refine, it's got more cheap domestic oil than it knows what to do with... I don't discount American involvement but I'm not sure that oil is the great driving factor it may have been historically, the Americans are producing enough of their own.

themeekforgotpw 11y ago
The long term strategy of the US is to provide energy security to Europe between tar sands, crude, gas and oil. It has multilateral plans with Canada and Mexico to build North-South pipelines to achieve this. Recently the conflict over oil off the shore of Guyana and the documents I linked to above (where it is STATED that the coup is motivated by oil) show recent actions by the US that contradict you. And further it is not merely about TAKING the oil (though it is). Venezuela uses its energy economy to unilaterally fix political outcomes. Think their shipping of oil to Cuba despite US sanctions. The US wants control of that oil.
- gassius 11y ago
  ... and the current inept Venezuelan Government is making all it can to help US convey it's plans, apparently

sillygeese 11y ago

> If we take Venezuela we need to make sure that we don't isolate the rest of the continent. So you don't see a problem with "you" "taking" Venezuela, as long as the consequences aren't too bad for "you"? Nevermind that other countries are not supposed to be your colonies and nevermind that you, as in, ordinary citizens, won't even benefit from the US "taking" Venezuela.