12 ms·

Why U.S.? I understand that you don´t want to live in your country, but there are many others countries. Many of them has a much flexible immigration system whe

Why U.S.? I understand that you don´t want to live in your country, but there are many others countries. Many of them has a much flexible immigration system where you can live legally if you find a job and where there are many jobs opportunities if you know how to code. I mean, instead of working almost illegally for free in the U.S., you can be legally and earning good money in another country. I´m from Uruguay and this will work here (also, you will have health insurance, as it is mandatory in any job of any type. Also, it is common that tech companies hire forgeries that don´t know Spanish, as most people know English, is not a problem). I know that this is also the case in many other countries.

hackaflocka 11y ago
On paper Uruguay has an amazing proposition for potential immigrants (and loved your ex-President with his humble lifestyle). However, only about 3,000 immigration visas are being granted each month from what I've heard, which is way lower than the demand for them.
- zzleeper 11y ago
  Given that UY has 1% of the US's population, 3,000 visas is actually a lot (equivalent to 3.6 million visas per year in the US)
  - deleted 11y ago
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  - deleted 11y ago
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    - markvdb 11y ago
      467*10^3 immigrant visas, not 10^6!
- notNow 11y ago
  Can you tell please more about the immigration and work outlook and prospects in Uruguay? I have very limited info about Uruguay and I appreciate it if someone could help me and provide more details about the situation there
  - iamcurious 11y ago
    The law is very generous regarding immigrants, but it still is somewhat hard because of the bureaucracy and paperwork. It is extra hard if you come from some country they don't know much of, because you will be a first for a few kinds of paperwork. I don't think knowing spanish is a requirement. At least I know of a few people who manage with only english, but you will enjoy life much more if you try to learn it. Uruguayans are nice, warm and very sociable, you will be missing out if you only talk to those that know english well enough. Regarding work prospects, Uruguay is expensive and the salaries don't seem to reflect that. You will probably manage, but will have to be more frugal than someone in Australia. (There is plenty of good paying programming jobs though. Uruguay is the top software exporter in Latin America.) All in all, Uruguay is underrated country. It has lots to offer and is growing everyday, but it still requires more effort to make a living than western countries. I wouldn't advice it for someone whose top goal is money, but I would strongly recommend it to someone who enjoys life's little pleasures, food, tranquility, friends, health, education and being away from almost all of the world conflicts.
iamcurious 11y ago
Uruguay was one of the countries I was thinking of in my other comment. So I second this. Also, gmazzotti, I believe you wanted to say "foreigners" instead of "forgeries".
sumedh 11y ago
OP should look at Australia, I think he will probably pass the 60 point requirements for Australian skilled PR visa.
- RowanH 11y ago
  Or New Zealand - check out www.seek.co.nz for jobs. Quite easy for tech skilled immigration.
  - nickbyfleet 11y ago
    Ditto this... as a developer in Auckland, I've got to say it's pretty sweet here. Ditched a career in investment banking in the US for the quality of life here. I only occasionally regret it.
    - smaili 11y ago
      What's the occasional that you regret? Friends/family?
      - _mgr 11y ago
        Likely anytime he needs to catch a bus or a train. Or wishes to have a discussion about something other than Auckland housing prices, Rugby, or Reality TV.
    - pandler 11y ago
      I'm currently in the process of sorting out a temporary work visa in Christchurch (+1 for the quality of life comment seriously). It's definitely harder to get a work visa without a degree in your field of work (I switched to software from another field of engineering), but 5+ years of relevant experience can serve as an alternative to a degree.
    - nathan_f77 11y ago
      Are you from Auckland, or did you move there from the US?
eigenvector 11y ago
Seriously, this is the most helpful comment on here. OP, I understand the psychological pull of America, and perhaps it is the first Western country you have visited, but it is not worth it to work illegally (as you are proposing, even if no money changes hands) in America. You may improve your life temporarily but it will all come crashing down one day when the immigration authorities catch up to you. You will be deported and banned from re-entering the US. There are many developed countries where someone with your skills can obtain a temporary work visa easily. You can live and work freely and legally, get on your feet financially and maybe attend university there to help you get into the US legally in the future. Maybe it will help if you tell us where your citizenship is and we can help you with suggestions of other developed countries that will allow you to come for a 1-2 year temporary work visa.
- zkhalique 11y ago
  I concur. There are in fact good reasons to get a permanent status in those countries, such as for passports and travel purposes. http://flagtheory.com/ http://flagtheory.com/
- crimsonalucard 11y ago
  Err this is not true. There are so many illegal immigrants in America that deportation is unlikely. You'd have to do something pretty bad to get deported.
  - comrade1 11y ago
    Or you could just be living a normal life: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/may/07/experience-i-was-deported http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/may/07/experien...
    - jhhn 11y ago
      This history sounds weird for me as he was in a relationship for 5 years and haven't even tried to marry with the girl to fix his status. The only safe way to stay in US is by getting married, what give to the skilled workers the same level of opportunity given to illegals. An immigration policy that encourages the fraud.
rattray 11y ago
Question to HN: What are the easiest countries for people from <anywhere> to move to as a software developer? Eg; easiest visa rules, there are companies hiring, people aren't egregiously racist?
- cpayne 11y ago
  New Zealand! As RowanH suggested above. Have a look at www.seek.co.nz
  - mattlutze 11y ago
    I've looked at NZ a bit as some friends live there -- it seems they've made it super, super easy to immigrate if you're in IT and can find a job in (4, 6?) months.
- semaphore_233 11y ago
  Germany will pretty much extend you the red carpet: getting a visa takes a couple of weeks and the deal is pretty decent. There are some societal problems with xenophobia and racism though. Probably affects Muslims the most. Avoidable by going to a major city like Berlin or Hamburg.
  - mattlutze 11y ago
    Development and tech jobs are not so easy to come by in Germany without B2 or better working knowledge of the language. You can come to Germany on a language visa, but you have to prove you have enough savings to live off of while you learn (and you can't work while you're on a language visa). Work visas are generally only issued if you already have an offer. Which is hard to get unless you're in the country...
    - mlent 11y ago
      Not true at all in my experience. You don't need to know any German, but you do need a university degree, so this isn't an option for OP either way.
mchaver 11y ago
Singapore is another good option. I believe it has a pretty straight forward work visa system. Also a growing number of startups. Here are some job boards: http://www.startupjobs.asia/ http://www.startupjobs.asia/ http://e27.co/jobs http://e27.co/jobs https://angel.co/singapore/jobs https://angel.co/singapore/jobs
- hal9000xp 11y ago
  I'm trying to get a job in Singapore. But it's a little bit challenging without university degree. I have to get a job offer with more than 6000 SGD per month in order to get employment pass without university degree.
  - mchaver 11y ago
    How many years of experience do you have? I can help you ask around. If you are interested send me an email (details in my profile).
- Poleris 11y ago
  Hong Kong is also an option. Relatively lenient on the work visa as long as you are skilled. Similar with a growing number of startups and big corps hiring lots of developers. Shoot me an email (in my profile) if you need help / are strongly considering HK.
anon3_ 11y ago
> Why U.S.? Because we're the best by far, in about every way? Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Intel, HP, Yahoo. Everything that matters in technology in here. Silicon Valley. Investors. Other countries try to imitate the excellence of USA, they don't. If USA is on your gut instincts - maybe you're meant to be here.
- skrebbel 11y ago
  > Because we're the best by far, in about every way? Just a random picture of San Francisco: http://stitchesanddishes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2010-04-12-TL.jpg http://stitchesanddishes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2010...
  - anon3_ 11y ago
    Those are programmers working in tech offices?
    - StavrosK 11y ago
      That's exactly what the GP is trying to tell you. "Who cares about anyone else, that's not me in the picture". I visited San Francisco for a month a month ago and it was pretty bleak.
      - marincounty 11y ago
        Life long resident of San Francisco, and the Bay Area. My grandparents had a house in the Richmond District. My father grew up on those streets. This was before the gangs, but he drove those avenues like he owned them. They used to call my dad and his buddies, "The Avenue Boys", or something like that? He was a terror in his younger days. He mellowed out around 30? He always used say, "I just don't know why people like San Francisco so much?" Things my father didn't like: The weather. He hated cold, rainy weather, and hated wind.(It messed up his hair?). He didn't travel much, so he didn't know what real hot weather can to do a person's energy level. I used to tell him if he spent a week in Joplin, Missouri, he would never complain about the cold, foggy SF climate. My father didn't like the cost of living in the city, but I never knew why. He didn't care about other people. Yes--he cared about himself. He really didn't have to worry about the costs because he inherited a house, and had a good Union job all his life? He didn't like the diversity in the city. I liked the diversity of the city, but found that even though San Francisco seems pretty liberal, and caring; people walk over the poor/Homeless in order to get to their shindig(whatever that may be?). They vote liberal if it benefits them, but it can be a cruel city? Maybe all big cities are cruel? I have noticed a lot of young females try to find a man in San Francisco, and I've seen/know a lot of lonely women. I guess there's a lot of reasons why? I have a ex-girlfriend who got sick of her social life, or lack there of, and finally moved to Silicon Valley.(I'm not sure if she ever found anyone?) If you are a female, and considering moving here, and want to settle down and start a family with the right guy; I think it's harder than other areas? Some of you will vehemently dissagree? Personally, I don't like driving/parking in San Francisco. If you decide to buy a car in San Franciaco put a kill switch in it--even if you think no thief wants it, you will eventually will have someone break into your vechicle. My old truck was broken into so much, I emptied it completely, and just left it open--at least they didn't break a window to get to a cheap stereo? The positives of the city: It's a union city, but you must get into a union. It's not impossible, but there's a lot of competition. You will get paid though; local 6 Electricians make $100/hr, or more? Bell Hops own homes. The restaurants, if you are care? Personally, I don't care that much about eating out, but I'm not normal. Rent control--if you are lucky enough to land in a place that has rent control? (I believe rent control is an essential for such a small city. The people I know who live in San Francisco all are under rent control, and wouldn't be there without it. They know they got lucky! ) The diversity. While I love the diversity; don't think people will welcome you with open arms. The better looking people are treated better. When their looks fade, they don't get any special treatment. I'm not just talking about the gay community either. (Maybe this is common everywhere?) Actually, the one thing I really love about San Franciso is Ocean beach. It's free to park your car. I've never seen too many cops harassing people there. It's just a peaceful place. I used to drink a beer, in my truck, there after work. To be honest, the city is great if you have money. I heard one little dude tell me, "SF is great for street smart, credentialed people!". He was in a bar desperately trying to impress his date--someone way out of this guy's league. I recall, telling him he would last half a day in New York City. I still believe that. I still believe it's easier to "make it" in SF, than NY? (The little dude was really irritating me, but what I said to him was true--at least I thought it was?)
NicoJuicy 11y ago
If you want to work without problems, Isn't Europe the steadier solution? I'm from Belgium fyi and Belgium is currently re-enabling "shelters" where fugutives of war can reside/stay.
- jotm 11y ago
  He'd still need a visa? EU citizens take it for granted, but it's actually rather hard to get a Schengen visa...
  - throwaway049 11y ago
    NicoJuicy appears to be referring to asylum seekers. They don't need a visa, just an asylum claim. I don't know about Belguim but in the UK asylum seekers are not initially allowed to work.
jagermo 11y ago
In addition to the comment: You need a "blue card" to work to work in the EU, its comparable to the US Green Card, but (i think) easier to get. From the Wikipedia-Article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Card_(European_Union) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Card_(European_Union)) : Acquisition of Blue Card has several requirements. The applicant must have a work contract or binding job offer with a salary of at least 1.5 times the average gross annual salary paid in the Member State. A Blue Card acquirer must present a valid travel document (and in specific cases a valid residence permit or a national long-term visa) and documents proving the relevant higher professional qualification. Here is more information regarding Germany (but it is from 2008): http://www.wohin-auswandern.de/blue-card-en http://www.wohin-auswandern.de/blue-card-en To be honest, the salary probably won't be a problem, with your expertise you should be able to land a pretty decent job.
- hal9000xp 11y ago
  Blue Card isn't only option. For example, in Sweden there are two work visas for software developers: Blue Card and Work Permit. I didn't get Blue Card since I didn't get job offer with really high salary, but instead I got Work Permit which don't require salary 1.5 times higher than the average. Also in Netherlands there are two options: Blue Card and High Skilled Migrant. Requirements for High Skilled Migrant are much lower than for Blue Card. In Sweden and Netherlands you can work without university degree. In Germany, you can not get Blue Card without university degree. And if you want to get Work Permit as alternative, you should know German language (Sweden and Netherlands don't require you to know their language). So Germany isn't good option. I recommend Sweden and Netherlands if you don't have university degree.
  - bojan 11y ago
    Netherlands is only probable if he is under 30. AFAIK, no-one has ever received a Blue Card in the NL. The salary requirement is higher than for knowledge migrants, so it doesn't even make sense to try. Knowledge migrant law discriminates on age. If he's over 30, the salary requirement is prohibitevely high - high enough that it is highly improbable he'll find a company willing to pay him that much with his profile. If he's under 30, than the salary requirement is around €3k per month, and that might be doable if he does his interview exceptionally well and convince them he has a "thinking level" of somebody with a university degree.
nokya 11y ago
Your comment makes a lot of sense and yes, the visa hassles are obviously the most logical reasons why any "foreigner technology worker" should try working elsewhere than in the US. But you know what? I don't think they can "hear" you. Let's face it, for many countries, the US is still seen as dreamland, in particular to those many who don't connect the dots between the root cause of the problems in their homeland and the 30% tax that will be taken away from their income once they start working in the US. This dreamland illusion is so strong that even the locals believe it. I have to deal with this on a monthly basis at the border custom patrol: the officers constantly stop me at the border and investigate me with tons of questions aiming at evaluating whether or not I am trying to "sneak into the country to steal work from honest US citizens" (sic). Every time, I am treated like a lost soul who's dreaming of working in the US (and who's very probably a criminal considering my skin color). Last time I crossed the border I was even warned that my passport doesn't show proof that I left the US, it only shows every time I entered it so technically, they don't know if I am staying there more than 90 days. How do you respond to this without being insulting? The thing is: I hate the idea of working in the US so much that I can't even talk honestly about what I feel fearing I would be arrested. So, yes, "why US?", you asked the right question. But these guys are living in the exact same illusion than the US citizens are: "Our country is the best place in the world, the only place you're free of your opinions and where you can become a billionaire." The illusion is so strong they would even work for free...for free...for free...for free... You can't do much against this.
- kjagijnnafljad 11y ago
  I hope I'm misunderstanding you because it sounds like you're saying you're upset the border guards accuse you of coming to the US to work illegally when you are in fact coming to the US to work illegally.
  - lr 11y ago
    I think you are confusing the commenter and the original poster.
    - deleted 11y ago
keerthiko 11y ago
I can relate to the OP, and there's something about once you've lived and worked in the software industry in California, that leaves a void that can't by filled by working in any other country. There's a value for and energy for the work that is never quite reached in any other tech ecosystem. It's really hard to put into words. I grew up in the Middle East, and am an Indian citizen. After my 7 years of studying+working in software in the US, and then having to leave due to similar visa issues, I was never as satisfied with working on software from a variety of other countries (Singapore, Korea, Oman, India, etc).
platita 11y ago
There really needs to be more transparency to how US compares to other destinations. https://medium.com/digital-nomad-stories/the-fading-american-dream-649414ce6af0 https://medium.com/digital-nomad-stories/the-fading-american...

hackaflocka 11y ago

On paper Uruguay has an amazing proposition for potential immigrants (and loved your ex-President with his humble lifestyle). However, only about 3,000 immigration visas are being granted each month from what I've heard, which is way lower than the demand for them.

zzleeper 11y ago
Given that UY has 1% of the US's population, 3,000 visas is actually a lot (equivalent to 3.6 million visas per year in the US)
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  - markvdb 11y ago
    467*10^3 immigrant visas, not 10^6!
notNow 11y ago
Can you tell please more about the immigration and work outlook and prospects in Uruguay? I have very limited info about Uruguay and I appreciate it if someone could help me and provide more details about the situation there
- iamcurious 11y ago
  The law is very generous regarding immigrants, but it still is somewhat hard because of the bureaucracy and paperwork. It is extra hard if you come from some country they don't know much of, because you will be a first for a few kinds of paperwork. I don't think knowing spanish is a requirement. At least I know of a few people who manage with only english, but you will enjoy life much more if you try to learn it. Uruguayans are nice, warm and very sociable, you will be missing out if you only talk to those that know english well enough. Regarding work prospects, Uruguay is expensive and the salaries don't seem to reflect that. You will probably manage, but will have to be more frugal than someone in Australia. (There is plenty of good paying programming jobs though. Uruguay is the top software exporter in Latin America.) All in all, Uruguay is underrated country. It has lots to offer and is growing everyday, but it still requires more effort to make a living than western countries. I wouldn't advice it for someone whose top goal is money, but I would strongly recommend it to someone who enjoys life's little pleasures, food, tranquility, friends, health, education and being away from almost all of the world conflicts.

iamcurious 11y ago

Uruguay was one of the countries I was thinking of in my other comment. So I second this. Also, gmazzotti, I believe you wanted to say "foreigners" instead of "forgeries".

sumedh 11y ago

OP should look at Australia, I think he will probably pass the 60 point requirements for Australian skilled PR visa.

RowanH 11y ago
Or New Zealand - check out www.seek.co.nz for jobs. Quite easy for tech skilled immigration.
- nickbyfleet 11y ago
  Ditto this... as a developer in Auckland, I've got to say it's pretty sweet here. Ditched a career in investment banking in the US for the quality of life here. I only occasionally regret it.
  - smaili 11y ago
    What's the occasional that you regret? Friends/family?
    - _mgr 11y ago
      Likely anytime he needs to catch a bus or a train. Or wishes to have a discussion about something other than Auckland housing prices, Rugby, or Reality TV.
  - pandler 11y ago
    I'm currently in the process of sorting out a temporary work visa in Christchurch (+1 for the quality of life comment seriously). It's definitely harder to get a work visa without a degree in your field of work (I switched to software from another field of engineering), but 5+ years of relevant experience can serve as an alternative to a degree.
  - nathan_f77 11y ago
    Are you from Auckland, or did you move there from the US?

eigenvector 11y ago

Seriously, this is the most helpful comment on here. OP, I understand the psychological pull of America, and perhaps it is the first Western country you have visited, but it is not worth it to work illegally (as you are proposing, even if no money changes hands) in America. You may improve your life temporarily but it will all come crashing down one day when the immigration authorities catch up to you. You will be deported and banned from re-entering the US. There are many developed countries where someone with your skills can obtain a temporary work visa easily. You can live and work freely and legally, get on your feet financially and maybe attend university there to help you get into the US legally in the future. Maybe it will help if you tell us where your citizenship is and we can help you with suggestions of other developed countries that will allow you to come for a 1-2 year temporary work visa.

zkhalique 11y ago
I concur. There are in fact good reasons to get a permanent status in those countries, such as for passports and travel purposes. http://flagtheory.com/ http://flagtheory.com/
crimsonalucard 11y ago
Err this is not true. There are so many illegal immigrants in America that deportation is unlikely. You'd have to do something pretty bad to get deported.
- comrade1 11y ago
  Or you could just be living a normal life: http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/may/07/experience-i-was-deported http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2011/may/07/experien...
  - jhhn 11y ago
    This history sounds weird for me as he was in a relationship for 5 years and haven't even tried to marry with the girl to fix his status. The only safe way to stay in US is by getting married, what give to the skilled workers the same level of opportunity given to illegals. An immigration policy that encourages the fraud.

rattray 11y ago

Question to HN: What are the easiest countries for people from <anywhere> to move to as a software developer? Eg; easiest visa rules, there are companies hiring, people aren't egregiously racist?

cpayne 11y ago
New Zealand! As RowanH suggested above. Have a look at www.seek.co.nz
- mattlutze 11y ago
  I've looked at NZ a bit as some friends live there -- it seems they've made it super, super easy to immigrate if you're in IT and can find a job in (4, 6?) months.
semaphore_233 11y ago
Germany will pretty much extend you the red carpet: getting a visa takes a couple of weeks and the deal is pretty decent. There are some societal problems with xenophobia and racism though. Probably affects Muslims the most. Avoidable by going to a major city like Berlin or Hamburg.
- mattlutze 11y ago
  Development and tech jobs are not so easy to come by in Germany without B2 or better working knowledge of the language. You can come to Germany on a language visa, but you have to prove you have enough savings to live off of while you learn (and you can't work while you're on a language visa). Work visas are generally only issued if you already have an offer. Which is hard to get unless you're in the country...
  - mlent 11y ago
    Not true at all in my experience. You don't need to know any German, but you do need a university degree, so this isn't an option for OP either way.

mchaver 11y ago

Singapore is another good option. I believe it has a pretty straight forward work visa system. Also a growing number of startups. Here are some job boards: http://www.startupjobs.asia/ http://www.startupjobs.asia/ http://e27.co/jobs http://e27.co/jobs https://angel.co/singapore/jobs https://angel.co/singapore/jobs

hal9000xp 11y ago
I'm trying to get a job in Singapore. But it's a little bit challenging without university degree. I have to get a job offer with more than 6000 SGD per month in order to get employment pass without university degree.
- mchaver 11y ago
  How many years of experience do you have? I can help you ask around. If you are interested send me an email (details in my profile).
Poleris 11y ago
Hong Kong is also an option. Relatively lenient on the work visa as long as you are skilled. Similar with a growing number of startups and big corps hiring lots of developers. Shoot me an email (in my profile) if you need help / are strongly considering HK.

anon3_ 11y ago

> Why U.S.? Because we're the best by far, in about every way? Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Intel, HP, Yahoo. Everything that matters in technology in here. Silicon Valley. Investors. Other countries try to imitate the excellence of USA, they don't. If USA is on your gut instincts - maybe you're meant to be here.

skrebbel 11y ago
> Because we're the best by far, in about every way? Just a random picture of San Francisco: http://stitchesanddishes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2010-04-12-TL.jpg http://stitchesanddishes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/2010...
- anon3_ 11y ago
  Those are programmers working in tech offices?
  - StavrosK 11y ago
    That's exactly what the GP is trying to tell you. "Who cares about anyone else, that's not me in the picture". I visited San Francisco for a month a month ago and it was pretty bleak.
    - marincounty 11y ago
      Life long resident of San Francisco, and the Bay Area. My grandparents had a house in the Richmond District. My father grew up on those streets. This was before the gangs, but he drove those avenues like he owned them. They used to call my dad and his buddies, "The Avenue Boys", or something like that? He was a terror in his younger days. He mellowed out around 30? He always used say, "I just don't know why people like San Francisco so much?" Things my father didn't like: The weather. He hated cold, rainy weather, and hated wind.(It messed up his hair?). He didn't travel much, so he didn't know what real hot weather can to do a person's energy level. I used to tell him if he spent a week in Joplin, Missouri, he would never complain about the cold, foggy SF climate. My father didn't like the cost of living in the city, but I never knew why. He didn't care about other people. Yes--he cared about himself. He really didn't have to worry about the costs because he inherited a house, and had a good Union job all his life? He didn't like the diversity in the city. I liked the diversity of the city, but found that even though San Francisco seems pretty liberal, and caring; people walk over the poor/Homeless in order to get to their shindig(whatever that may be?). They vote liberal if it benefits them, but it can be a cruel city? Maybe all big cities are cruel? I have noticed a lot of young females try to find a man in San Francisco, and I've seen/know a lot of lonely women. I guess there's a lot of reasons why? I have a ex-girlfriend who got sick of her social life, or lack there of, and finally moved to Silicon Valley.(I'm not sure if she ever found anyone?) If you are a female, and considering moving here, and want to settle down and start a family with the right guy; I think it's harder than other areas? Some of you will vehemently dissagree? Personally, I don't like driving/parking in San Francisco. If you decide to buy a car in San Franciaco put a kill switch in it--even if you think no thief wants it, you will eventually will have someone break into your vechicle. My old truck was broken into so much, I emptied it completely, and just left it open--at least they didn't break a window to get to a cheap stereo? The positives of the city: It's a union city, but you must get into a union. It's not impossible, but there's a lot of competition. You will get paid though; local 6 Electricians make $100/hr, or more? Bell Hops own homes. The restaurants, if you are care? Personally, I don't care that much about eating out, but I'm not normal. Rent control--if you are lucky enough to land in a place that has rent control? (I believe rent control is an essential for such a small city. The people I know who live in San Francisco all are under rent control, and wouldn't be there without it. They know they got lucky! ) The diversity. While I love the diversity; don't think people will welcome you with open arms. The better looking people are treated better. When their looks fade, they don't get any special treatment. I'm not just talking about the gay community either. (Maybe this is common everywhere?) Actually, the one thing I really love about San Franciso is Ocean beach. It's free to park your car. I've never seen too many cops harassing people there. It's just a peaceful place. I used to drink a beer, in my truck, there after work. To be honest, the city is great if you have money. I heard one little dude tell me, "SF is great for street smart, credentialed people!". He was in a bar desperately trying to impress his date--someone way out of this guy's league. I recall, telling him he would last half a day in New York City. I still believe that. I still believe it's easier to "make it" in SF, than NY? (The little dude was really irritating me, but what I said to him was true--at least I thought it was?)

NicoJuicy 11y ago

If you want to work without problems, Isn't Europe the steadier solution? I'm from Belgium fyi and Belgium is currently re-enabling "shelters" where fugutives of war can reside/stay.

jotm 11y ago
He'd still need a visa? EU citizens take it for granted, but it's actually rather hard to get a Schengen visa...
- throwaway049 11y ago
  NicoJuicy appears to be referring to asylum seekers. They don't need a visa, just an asylum claim. I don't know about Belguim but in the UK asylum seekers are not initially allowed to work.

jagermo 11y ago

In addition to the comment: You need a "blue card" to work to work in the EU, its comparable to the US Green Card, but (i think) easier to get. From the Wikipedia-Article (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Card_(European_Union) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Card_(European_Union)) : Acquisition of Blue Card has several requirements. The applicant must have a work contract or binding job offer with a salary of at least 1.5 times the average gross annual salary paid in the Member State. A Blue Card acquirer must present a valid travel document (and in specific cases a valid residence permit or a national long-term visa) and documents proving the relevant higher professional qualification. Here is more information regarding Germany (but it is from 2008): http://www.wohin-auswandern.de/blue-card-en http://www.wohin-auswandern.de/blue-card-en To be honest, the salary probably won't be a problem, with your expertise you should be able to land a pretty decent job.

hal9000xp 11y ago
Blue Card isn't only option. For example, in Sweden there are two work visas for software developers: Blue Card and Work Permit. I didn't get Blue Card since I didn't get job offer with really high salary, but instead I got Work Permit which don't require salary 1.5 times higher than the average. Also in Netherlands there are two options: Blue Card and High Skilled Migrant. Requirements for High Skilled Migrant are much lower than for Blue Card. In Sweden and Netherlands you can work without university degree. In Germany, you can not get Blue Card without university degree. And if you want to get Work Permit as alternative, you should know German language (Sweden and Netherlands don't require you to know their language). So Germany isn't good option. I recommend Sweden and Netherlands if you don't have university degree.
- bojan 11y ago
  Netherlands is only probable if he is under 30. AFAIK, no-one has ever received a Blue Card in the NL. The salary requirement is higher than for knowledge migrants, so it doesn't even make sense to try. Knowledge migrant law discriminates on age. If he's over 30, the salary requirement is prohibitevely high - high enough that it is highly improbable he'll find a company willing to pay him that much with his profile. If he's under 30, than the salary requirement is around €3k per month, and that might be doable if he does his interview exceptionally well and convince them he has a "thinking level" of somebody with a university degree.

nokya 11y ago

Your comment makes a lot of sense and yes, the visa hassles are obviously the most logical reasons why any "foreigner technology worker" should try working elsewhere than in the US. But you know what? I don't think they can "hear" you. Let's face it, for many countries, the US is still seen as dreamland, in particular to those many who don't connect the dots between the root cause of the problems in their homeland and the 30% tax that will be taken away from their income once they start working in the US. This dreamland illusion is so strong that even the locals believe it. I have to deal with this on a monthly basis at the border custom patrol: the officers constantly stop me at the border and investigate me with tons of questions aiming at evaluating whether or not I am trying to "sneak into the country to steal work from honest US citizens" (sic). Every time, I am treated like a lost soul who's dreaming of working in the US (and who's very probably a criminal considering my skin color). Last time I crossed the border I was even warned that my passport doesn't show proof that I left the US, it only shows every time I entered it so technically, they don't know if I am staying there more than 90 days. How do you respond to this without being insulting? The thing is: I hate the idea of working in the US so much that I can't even talk honestly about what I feel fearing I would be arrested. So, yes, "why US?", you asked the right question. But these guys are living in the exact same illusion than the US citizens are: "Our country is the best place in the world, the only place you're free of your opinions and where you can become a billionaire." The illusion is so strong they would even work for free...for free...for free...for free... You can't do much against this.

kjagijnnafljad 11y ago
I hope I'm misunderstanding you because it sounds like you're saying you're upset the border guards accuse you of coming to the US to work illegally when you are in fact coming to the US to work illegally.
- lr 11y ago
  I think you are confusing the commenter and the original poster.
  - deleted 11y ago

keerthiko 11y ago

I can relate to the OP, and there's something about once you've lived and worked in the software industry in California, that leaves a void that can't by filled by working in any other country. There's a value for and energy for the work that is never quite reached in any other tech ecosystem. It's really hard to put into words. I grew up in the Middle East, and am an Indian citizen. After my 7 years of studying+working in software in the US, and then having to leave due to similar visa issues, I was never as satisfied with working on software from a variety of other countries (Singapore, Korea, Oman, India, etc).

platita 11y ago

There really needs to be more transparency to how US compares to other destinations. https://medium.com/digital-nomad-stories/the-fading-american-dream-649414ce6af0 https://medium.com/digital-nomad-stories/the-fading-american...